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The dilemmas from 2001 are cleared-up.

I cannot recover from the shock about the probability that the "Ibar" file may be true, former prime minister and president of honor of the VMRO-NP Ljubco Georgievski says. He reminds that the story saying that some of the NLA leaders were collaborators of the former State Security Service was promoted by PDSh before the beginning of the crisis, but the published documentation, in his opinion, goes beyond any contemplations in this direction concerning the entire past period.

"I was greatly shocked, because it comes out that the then government of the VMRO-DPMNE and the PDSh was practically overthrown with a military coup. This is why there is the great curiosity to settle down whether all this was true. I believe that the settlement of this file is of key importance for other reasons, too: First, from the position of a new and democratic Serbia; second, from the internal Albanian relations that have to be cleared up by the Albanians themselves. And the third dimension are the relations that NATO itself obviously has to clear up, because the question is can this be the biggest game ever played by the Yugoslav State Security Service that was prepared for and served to the NATO allies? The fact is that during the crisis, they fully supported the NLA and Ali Ahmeti. I believe that too many sides must have a vigorous interest in clearing up this story with the files."

Question: Have you, as Prime Minister, ever heard of the pseudonym Ibar?

Answer: No, I must tell you that I am hearing it for the first time. There are frequent headlines nowadays suggesting that Serbia had practically organized the war in Macedonia. If the credibility of the file is asserted, it will be apparent that Serbia had been seriously involved in the Macedonian crisis in 2001. However, I ask which Serbia? This is why I believe that Serbia should also be interested in clearing up this affair for the sake of its own image. During our visit to Belgrade at the beginning of 2001, as a result of an extraordinary invitation, at the meeting with Prime Minister Djindjic and Interior Minister Zivkovic, friendly, in the new spirit, they told us that they had been informed by their services that the Albanians were preparing a rebellion in Macedonia. They indicated a dozen of villages in Macedonia where there were arms and organized groupings. This moment, this friendly piece of information, was something that I often analyzed and I am absolutely certain that the then new Serbian leadership headed by Mr. Djindjic was not supporting that operation. On the contrary, I assume that the old state security structures had informed them that something like that would happen in Macedonia. And in my opinion, their goal was to burn down everything possible to be able to save them as easily as possible. I believe that the then Serbian leadership was a part of somebody's game, of some kitchens of the old state security structures.

Question: As Prime Minister, were you receiving daily bulletins from the security services, were you reading them at all?

Answer: I must tell you that the services were sending their bulletins, but I had not read a serious report in which any of the services was informing about a possible rebellion of the Albanians of a greater portion. I can guarantee that neither orally nor in written I as prime minister was warned about a larger operational action in Macedonia.

Question: There are theses that the 2001 was not backed by Serbian secret services and that actually you are using them for providing an alibi because you and Mr. Arben Dzaferi are standing behind the idea for splitting-up Macedonia, and that the "controlled conflict" served this purpose.

Answer: This is an old and well known thesis and among the rest it was one of the reasons why the VMRO-DPMNNE and PDPSh government had fallen. Evidently, some structures are again promoting it, but it again implies going to the wrong direction because we have a concrete file on ONA leaders. The thesis can be very easily broken up with the counter question - who did I make this agreement with? If it was Dzaferi, it is wrong, because the war was waged by Ali Ahmeti, Fazli Veliu, Gzim Ostreni, i.e. a totally different structure. If we had the answer, why did the government fall and a new one was formed by Crvenkovski and Ahmeti? Why would I act against myself? This is an unprecedented nonsense. So, one must be totally crazy to make war on the peak of an economic expansion. Here, let us defend the thesis about a controlled conflict. On the other side of this controlled conflict there were Ahmeti, Veliu, Ostreni. If the conflict was controlled, I should have been in contact with them, and I did not have any contacts. I will repeat, we have concrete files and you can get into them essentially and legally. It is legal to prove whether these documents are original. Essentially, there are some relations there that only the Albanians know of and they have to clear them up. And finally, if anybody should fight in this phase to clear up everything, that is Ahmeti in person. You know, this is a file because of which a person should make suicide if he is thinking at all. The story about an organized war is very small compared to the accusations written down in the file. We will have an answer to all the questions if we prove this to be credible. If not, the idea about exchange of territories arrived at a much later phase. This idea was practically not my personal idea and at least three state officials had participated in it.

Question: Who?

Answer: Boris Trajkovski is one of them, Stojan Andov, and I. Boris Trajkovski told it to Crvenkovski. This idea followed after the crisis had been intensified and we were faced with the fact that the International Community was actually backing the Albanians.

Question: Did Dzaferi accept the offer?

Answer: No, he did not even want to discuss about it. Three academicians also backed the idea, but two of them withdrew - Gjeorgji Stardelov and Blaze Ristevski. The fact that later on they reiterated and left Efremov on his own is up to them.

Question: Can you make a comparison between what was going on in 2001 and what is happening now and about a possible activation and creation of a crisis in the region on the side of the old secret services?

Answer: A comparison is possible, but what I wish to point out is that apparently Serbia, Macedonia and the Albanians, no matter whether they are from Kosovo or Macedonia, are still under the great control of the old Yugoslav state security structures. I believe that for Serbia and for Macedonia, as well as for the Albanian structures, it is a matter of life to clear up with them once and for all. Although the national and political interests of these three, let me call them nations or peoples, are seemingly diametrically opposite, in essence they have one and only interest. It is a struggle against these structures and finally making possible a real democratic life in all the three states. If this affair comes to be true, it will just show that the Serbs, the Macedonians, and the Albanians are under constant manipulation of the old Yugoslav structures. Our struggle in this direction should be the only one.

Interview with Ljubco Georgievski, former Prime Minister, by Predrag Dimitrovski, Mariela Trajkovska
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Title Annotation:EN "DNEVNIK"
Author:Dimitrovski, Predrag; Trajkovska, Mariela
Publication:Weekly News Service
Article Type:Interview
Geographic Code:4EXMA
Date:Oct 26, 2010
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