Who do you love? Isa Genzken in conversation with Wolfgang Tillmans.Isa Genzken Isa Genzken (born 1948, Bad Oldesloe, Germany) is an artist based in Berlin. Genzken studied at the Hamburg College of Fine Arts[1] from 1969-1971, the Berlin University of Fine Arts[2] from 1971-1973 and Dusseldorf Art Academy[3] from 1973-1977. : I can give you a little tour of my studio. This is a piece for which I finally found "Finally Found" was the debut single from the Honeyz. This was their most successful single in the UK and worldwide, securing a number 4 position in the UK singles chart and achieved platinum status in Australia [1] Tracklisting # Title Length a title today. It's called Kinder filmen [Children Who Film]. I find it's a beautiful title. [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] Wolfgang Tillmans Wolfgang Tillmans (born August 15, 1968) is a German photographer. Born in Remscheid in Germany, Tillmans lived and worked in Hamburg at the end of the 1980s before moving to England. He studied at Bournemouth and Poole College of Art from 1990 to 1992. : That's what it looks like, children filming. IG: [Laughs.] This one of the dolls is new, too. WT: Is that one a dog? IG: No, it's actually a little bear. But the ears are no longer there, and that's why one doesn't quite know what it is. The children have wreaked some havoc--they're romping romp intr.v. romped, romp·ing, romps 1. To play or frolic boisterously. 2. To run or advance in a rapid or easy manner. 3. Slang To win a race or game easily. n. 1. . [Laughter.] WT: You suggest that they're just playing, but do you also see that they're somehow a bit shocking? They look a little dead. IG: You think dead, already? No, I mean, if one can hold oneself in that position, then one isn't dead. When one is dead, one is somewhere.... I see my work at the moment--as opposed to in the past--as having something to do with the innermost in·ner·most adj. 1. Situated or occurring farthest within: the innermost chamber. 2. Most intimate: one's innermost feelings. n. more than something to do with the exterior. One can always explain the exterior. But the inner side one finds difficult to explain. And these sculptures have more to do with the inner view. [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] WT: Yes. IG: Do you understand? I see the children as if they just had to do something, as if they had to play twisted. I don't approach it so formally, in the sense of, "This is the mother and this the little child." Rather, it's more like a feeling that I have for children, for their craziness. But the inner one, not the learned one. Do you know what I'm talking I'm Talking was a 1980s Australian funk-pop rock band, noted for launching vocalist Kate Ceberano. History After the break-up of the Melbourne-based experimental funk band Essendon Airport in 1983, members Robert Goodge (guitar), Ian Cox (saxophone) and Barbara Hogarth about? WT: Yes, sure. IG: That's why the formal in my more recent works is daring in a way because there is little to hold on to, little one can tie things to, except for a sense I have when I am actually engaged in the process of construction and things come together. Yet works like the "Empire/Vampire" sculptures [2003-2004] still came from an aesthetic stance that I've had for thirty years, a stance I continue to develop. The intention is to get a different reaction from the "already known." I can't explain it any other way. WT: You've always got to allow yourself a new way of accessing your own work. When you're not working with a formula, ideas have to find their own way and take their own time to surface. IG: There is nothing worse in art than, "You see it and you know it." Many artists seem to work from a theory that they invent, so to speak, and which accompanies them through life, a theory they never deviate from. That's a certainty I don't like. After all, art is often on the edge in the sense that in one moment it seems really very close, and the next moment you find it doesn't. You can see this quality in the artists I love: Mondrian, Ellsworth Kelly Ellsworth Kelly (b. Newburgh, New York, May 31, 1923) is an American painter and sculptor associated with Hard-edge painting, Color field painting and the minimalist school. , and Carl Andre Carl Andre (born September 16, 1935) is an American minimalist artist. Andre was born in Quincy, Massachusetts and educated in Quincy public schools and at Philips Academy, Andover, where he became friends with Hollis Frampton and Michael Chapman. Andre served in the U.S. . I always ask myself, "Who did you love when you were young?" Michael Asher For the explorer, see . Michael Asher is a conceptual artist known since the late 1960s for site-specific installations that offer a critique of art institutions. Rather than designing new art objects, Asher typically alters the existing environment, by repositioning or removing , Lawrence Weiner Lawrence Weiner (born February 10, 1942) was one of the central figures of conceptual art. He was born in the Bronx, New York. lives and works in New York and Amsterdam , Dan Graham Dan Graham (born 1942) is a New York based U.S. artist. He is an influential figure in the field of contemporary art, both a practitioner of conceptual art and a well-versed art critic and theorist. , Andre--almost only Americans. And then I ask, "As you got a little older, who did you love then?" Wolfgang Tillmans and Kai kai Noun NZ informal food [Maori] kai noun N.Z. (informal) food, grub (slang) provisions, fare, board, commons, eats (slang Althoff--that's it. And I find that a little comforting. There are hundreds of different approaches, and you have to engage with all of them in some way and ask yourself, "Is there something to it?" You have to always keep your eyes open because the art world is not a department store. It's not that you just see a trifle tri·fle n. 1. Something of little importance or value. 2. A small amount; a jot. 3. A dessert typically consisting of plain or sponge cake soaked in sherry, rum, or brandy and topped with layers of jam or jelly, here or there. [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] WT: I have a hard, judging gaze, but I also have a benign one. That comes from a feeling that these are all people who do their best. I was very impressed by a statement Andy Warhol Noun 1. Andy Warhol - United States artist who was a leader of the Pop Art movement (1930-1987) Warhol made in an interview I read in the '80s. He was asked, "Why do you always say everything is great?" Warhol said, "Because life is hard. Everything is hard. Baking a cake is hard." And this feeling that everything is really difficult gives me a point of access, in the sense of a basic respect and appreciation. You can't go around thinking everything's crap. [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] IG: NO! That's not at all how I mean it. Well, there are hundreds of artists, and when you open an art journal, you see this and that, and this sells well and that, too. In order to get out of the confusion of all that's on offer, I ask, "What do I enjoy the most aesthetically? What can I get the most out of?" The others all rob me of energy because they do something that I don't understand. That's not arrogance on my part--it's self-preservation. WT: Yes, everybody wants full attention, but you only have a certain amount to give, and you have to be careful with it. We could probably like a lot more things if we would let them get to us in a different way. But, for example, the works of the youngest generation today have a different syntax syntax: see grammar. syntax Arrangement of words in sentences, clauses, and phrases, and the study of the formation of sentences and the relationship of their component parts. because they come from a different context, and we can't decode (1) To convert coded data back into its original form. Contrast with encode. (2) Same as decrypt. See cryptography. (cryptography) decode - To apply decryption. the syntax so easily anymore. A relative appreciation of all sorts of things outside of your generation is much more difficult because you have to confront so many new and different strategies. A lot falls through the net when you look at it. IG: But I'm not an art historian. That's the freedom I have as an artist. Yet you have to get a lot of new visual impressions, again and again. Otherwise you get completely limited. WT: I see that as almost the most important duty. To take the freedom is actually the hardest work. IG: Yes. One often thinks, "I've got this driving feeling. I have to drive the motorway to the very end," and then, "I must do this and this and that." But that's not good. It's much better when one interrupts this routine in order to approach what one does differently. One gains a lot from this process--all that time that one ... WT: ... thinks one is losing, one has actually won. IG: Yes. WT: Last year I had an intense experience relating to relating to relate prep → concernant relating to relate prep → bezüglich +gen, mit Bezug auf +acc that. One morning I was on the subway subway: see rapid transit. subway Underground railway system used to transport passengers within urban and suburban areas. The first subway line, 3. to the studio and thought, "The most incredible thing now would be to just keep sitting on the train and go to the last stop." A minor action, yet I knew what a deed it would be. Still, I didn't do it. I thought, no, I still have things I have to do. A few days later, I walked again to the tube station, and from that station there are also trains to Brighton, and I just got on one instead of going to the studio and spent a day by the sea. And there I decided to change things and move to Berlin for the summer. [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] IG: That's a great story. WT: Like taking the lid off your head. IG: [Laughs.] It's important not to be all tensed up in the visual work one is doing. One has to maintain one's sense of humor Noun 1. sense of humor - the trait of appreciating (and being able to express) the humorous; "she didn't appreciate my humor"; "you can't survive in the army without a sense of humor" sense of humour, humor, humour and wit. A man with special wit that I particularly liked was Joseph Beuys Joseph Beuys (IPA: [ˈjoːzɛf ˈbɔʏs]; May 12, 1921 – January 23, 1986) was an influential German artist who came to prominence in the 1960s. . I was privileged to encounter him several times when he was alive. He had a unique face. Crazy--I was fascinated by it. WT: He was extremely charismatic, right? IG: Well, he actually kissed my hand once and said, "You are my teacher." WT: [Laughs.] Really? IG: Yes. In Venice, with his whole family in the background. WT: That is fabulous. IG: I met him only rarely. I once called him and said, "I must talk to you." And he said, "Just come over." I must say there is a certain energy among artists. He didn't say "Okay, when do you want to come by? Next week, or what?" We sat under the cherry tree in his wonderful little garden and he asked, "Well, what do you want from me?" I said, "Architecture is a catastrophe in Germany; we've got to change that." Then he said, "Go ahead, you can always sign for me." [Laughs.] I wasn't there for long. Even though we didn't see each other often, we got on really well, in a very direct way. We didn't need to say much. It's beautiful when that happens. That's what it was also like with Dan Graham and Lawrence Weiner. One doesn't need to say so much about things. [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] WT: One can read it straight away in the other. IG: Yes, and that is exactly the relationship one has to the person and to the art that person makes. It's pretty much one to one. [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] WT: Because art is, after all, an extreme mirror of the person. I truly believe that artworks can translate thinking and psychology beyond words, and an interesting take on the world will yield an interesting result in a form that doesn't necessarily follow speech or writing patterns. IG: That's why we're dealing with aesthetic problems--in order to visualize what we think. That's what it's all about. WT: Yes. But most don't even think that. IG: That is why someone like Leger is a kind of illness to me, because there art is used for something it's never had anything to do with. You know, something strange happened to me recently when I was in the Museum Ludwig Museum Ludwig, located in Cologne, Germany, houses a collection of modern art. It includes works from PopArt, Abstract and Surrealism, and has one of the largest Picasso collections in Europe. It also features many works by Andy Warhol and Roy Lichtenstein. . There was an exhibition there comparing Leger and Beckmann. Neither is all that interesting to me, because in a curious way they are both so unrealistic. Leger--nobody looks like he paints. WT: Neither was ever a favorite of mine. IG: And when I saw this exhibition, I had the feeling that in these forms of art lie the root of all evil in twentieth-century art, and there is a line right through to today. This is the feeling that came over me; I wanted nothing to do with it. It's different with Matisse, who worked at the same time, after all, or some wonderful works by Picasso, for example. If we're concerned in a certain way with realism, be it in painting or photography, there's another energy there. [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] WT: I think it's much more radical to see and show things as they look instead of making them somehow subversive through alienation alienation, in property laws: see tenure. alienation In the social sciences context, the state of feeling estranged or separated from one's milieu, work, products of work, or self. or estrangement. I find it less shocking when it's estranged es·trange tr.v. es·tranged, es·trang·ing, es·trang·es 1. To make hostile, unsympathetic, or indifferent; alienate. 2. To remove from an accustomed place or set of associations. . It's better if you can show an inner thought or something shocking with a so-to-speak realistic representation, without it becoming immediately "art." IG: I wanted to ask you something: When I see your photographs I think of painting. Is that wrong or right? WT: That is right. But I don't photograph with a conscious wish to paint a picture with the camera. It's because I see that way. I see the pictures; they are right in front of me. I don't seek out what looks painterly paint·er·ly adj. 1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of a painter; artistic. 2. a. Having qualities unique to the art of painting. b. , and I don't try to make my pictures look like paintings. That ... IG: ... just happens. WT: My photographs are first and foremost pictures. And in that respect my frame of reference obviously includes more than just the 150 years of photographic picture making. I don't think in media-specific categories. I think first of all, "A field of color not of the white race; - commonly meaning, esp. in the United States, of negro blood, pure or mixed. See also: Color is a field of color." IG: I also find your pictures quite classical. WT: I have always consciously downplayed the classical so that it doesn't look as if I wanted it to be painting. I love photography and am very comfortable with it; I find it liberating lib·er·ate tr.v. lib·er·at·ed, lib·er·at·ing, lib·er·ates 1. To set free, as from oppression, confinement, or foreign control. 2. Chemistry To release (a gas, for example) from combination. as a practice. Even the abstracts are assuredly photographic. IG: Well, how's your work going, anyway? WT: Good! Last summer was really liberating because of the spontaneous decision to spend it in Berlin. Suddenly I had the feeling that a new time in my work had started. It's not that I changed something radically, but continuing had become possible. And with truth study center [Taschen, 2005], the new book which occupied me on and off for an entire year, this process has reached some closure--just as the first book ten years ago was a point of closure so that I could do something new or, more precisely, could carry on. I don't mean closure in a negative way--it's more like capturing the feeling of being alive. You have to do that while the feeling lasts. With the first book I felt the urgency to condense con·dense v. con·densed, con·dens·ing, con·dens·es v.tr. 1. To reduce the volume or compass of. 2. To make more concise; abridge or shorten. 3. Physics a. into one volume what I felt during the early '90s. At the time my friends said, "You are crazy to put out a big book with Taschen at the age of twenty-six." But for me it was necessary because I knew this was the here-and-now and the power to catch what it feels like today may go tomorrow. In that sense the last year felt similar, and that's what I aimed to capture in the new book. [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] IG: Do you have it with you? WT: Yes, as photocopies. [Takes them out.] IG: Wow, it's fabulous; very nice. WT: The most important thing was that there simply be a reason for a new book, and that it feel new. In it, I'm attempting an ordered examination of social surfaces--world and nature--and at the same time, the pictures are arranged in groups and chapters, although these are not named. As far as the energy is concerned, a lot harks back to my beginnings, although in a different form. Having done several books that treat the pictures in a more precious way gave me the freedom to go full circle in the new book, to pursue a certain flow that's similar to that in the first one. [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] IG: Who is that? WT: That is Conor, who was my assistant for three years, and who was very important in my life. IG: This woman also seems familiar. WT: Irm Hermann, the actress in Fassbinder's films. IG: Oh yes! And I'm represented here as well. Who's that? He also seems familiar. WT: Tony Blair Noun 1. Tony Blair - British statesman who became prime minister in 1997 (born in 1953) Anthony Charles Lynton Blair, Blair . [Laughs.] IG: Of course. [Laughs.] I wouldn't have guessed it right now. WT: This is in Cologne at the Diozesanmuseum. The Trinity. IG: Does it really look like that? No double exposure or anything? WT: No. It's a medieval woodcarving. IG: Amazing a·maze v. a·mazed, a·maz·ing, a·maz·es v.tr. 1. To affect with great wonder; astonish. See Synonyms at surprise. 2. Obsolete To bewilder; perplex. v.intr. . WT: And this was the staircase to my apartment in London. IG: Not bad. WT: Red carpet! IG: It'll be quite a volume. I like the rhythm. WT: Well, that's the world as I see it--right now, anyway. IG: One will look at the book repeatedly, most likely. It is contemplative con·tem·pla·tive adj. Disposed to or characterized by contemplation. See Synonyms at pensive. n. 1. A person given to contemplation. 2. A member of a religious order that emphasizes meditation. . No layout in the sense ... WT: People sometimes ask why my books don't more directly reflect the layouts of my installations, but they are two completely different things! When you put pictures together on pages, it has nothing to do with viewing them in a room, where you can approach the pictures in the space. [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] IG: I could look at it again straight away. WT: Yes, that is the most important thing, that the work also goes on. That one doesn't just slow down. IG: That, I think, is not possible in your case. You always have to ask yourself, "When did I start? And where am I now?" WT: That is really the thing. At the beginning of the '90s, I always thought, "In which city do the things happen that are best for me? Booze Booze sold cheap whiskey in a log-cabin bottle. [Am. Hist.: Espy, 152–153] See : Drunkenness or no booze? In love or not in love? Unhappy or happy?" And the hard truth is that ninety percent of it lies within you. You can't just get the stuff from outside. There is never a method. The method is always right or wrong at this or that moment, but you can't generalize generalize /gen·er·al·ize/ (-iz) 1. to spread throughout the body, as when local disease becomes systemic. 2. to form a general principle; to reason inductively. it. IG: I've also noticed that with my things. For a long time, I went about my work very conceptually. With the hi-fi photographs, ellipsoids, or with the works made of concrete, I had an idea and realized it forcefully force·ful adj. Characterized by or full of force; effective: was persuaded by the forceful speaker to register to vote; enacted forceful measures to reduce drug abuse. . Then I stopped doing that suddenly, and a new phase started: Just go ahead. And yet the rigor rigor /rig·or/ (rig´er) [L.] chill; rigidity. rigor mor´tis the stiffening of a dead body accompanying depletion of adenosine triphosphate in the muscle fibers. of all those earlier years is still in me. Now I have slowly reached the point where I can say I want to do something again that I think about very clearly. I know now that I can do the other thing, too. But I slowly have to return to that which is thought through very carefully. That will be the next step. And it will once again look completely different from everything before. That is an automatic process. That is what I meant when I talked about artists who work according to according to prep. 1. As stated or indicated by; on the authority of: according to historians. 2. In keeping with: according to instructions. 3. a principle. How something has to be. I don't really have that at all. And I like it that way, actually.... Keep mixing things up! [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] [ILLUSTRATION OMITTED] Translated from German by Wilhelm Werthern (with Brian Currid). |
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