Which master's matters? A real world look at the MBA versus M.A. ... and even the ABC designation.

Panelists

Jim Sheahan

Executive director of the Mayor's Office of special events, Chicago B.A. in history from St. Joseph's College

Patricia Shafer

Director of corporate affairs, Kraft Foods B.A. in political science and mass communications M.A. in journalism from Ohio State MBA from the Kellogg School of management at Northwestern

Bill Kokontis

Vice president of marketing programs for the Chicago Mercantile Exchange B.A. in philosophy and anthropology M.A. in agricultural economics from the University of Illinois 

Moderator

Marilyn Moats Kennedy

Founder and managing partner of Career Strategies Author of six books, including "Office Politics and Career Knockouts" B.A. in journalism M.S.J. in science & journalism from the Medill School of Journalism at Northwestern

Get an MBA or M.A. in communication? A question many communicators wrestle with, particularly those with 10 plus years of experience and a career humming on idle. How vital is the master's to your success as communicator? Can you rise without it? Educator J. David Pincus, Ph.D., APR, delineated the merits of each degree in February's special issue of Communication World. One fundamental difference, according to Pincus, is that the MBA is a generalized, professional degree while the master's is specialized and research-driven. No matter which path, Pincus urged the communicator to get more business sense. "Tackle your fright of finance and numbers head on," said Pincus. Embrace Forbes and BusinessWeek.

Okay. Now for another perspective. You're competing for a job with 600 other faceless souls responding to the same advertisement. Will a master's or MBA make your resume glow in the dark? What does the real world say?

At an IABC/Chicago chapter luncheon in March, four experts answered the real-world questions. Jim Sheahan elevated work commitment to passion. Sheahan, a former teacher for Chicago public schools, spoke glowingly of his staff, some 70 magic-gatherers who organize the city's parades and premiere events like the Taste of Chicago.

Sitting next to Sheahan was Patricia Shafer. Shafer completed both degrees - a master's and MBA - and applied them to advantage at Kraft. Her specialty in crisis communication was evident. Shafer would stay calm despite a reporter swarm pressing microphones at her.

Third panelist Bill Kokontis is a creative force thriving in a pin-stripe industry. He is vice president of marketing programs for the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. With his roots in philosophy, Kokontis described a yin-yang balance in business, of its cyclical and even fickle nature. His reach at the Exchange is wide: from extensive training programs, to running the Exchange's library and overseeing the web site.

As moderator, Marilyn Moats Kennedy got big laughs. Kennedy has the insouciance of an accomplished performer - and a bulls-eye aim. She's at the top of her game. She's been interviewed on U.S. television shows "Good Morning America" and "20/20" and is the author of six career strategy books. If you seek advice and expect hand-holding, forget it. Kennedy's no-nonsense.

So, the cast was assembled and the script impromptu. For the communicator, is the master's meaningful? Unless you are the Michael Jordan of wordsmithing, yes. The advanced degree helps. But the master's or MBA is no guarantee of a higher salary.

Marilyn Moats Kennedy

Are you anywhere between 50 and death and thinking about getting a master's degree? What kind do you need? We want to hear from real people.

Jim Sheahan

I probably see as many resumes as any human being on the face of the earth. When I look at a resume - I do not look to just see if a person has a master's. What is most important are basic skills. Many people coming out of universities don't have them. People need to have skills as far as writing and math go - and skill sets. Plus, it's how the person presents him or herself. That's an intangible. If a person has it, they have it. You can tell. Talk to them. They're interested in producing and putting themselves into the job. Commitment is more important than any educational background. There is no substitute for passion.

Patricia Shafer

I believe in metaphors. And the metaphor that's been rolling around in my head about the value of an advanced degree is golf. Is there anybody in the room who's a golfer? What about a skier? or a tennis player? Everybody's got a hobby. Whatever it is, there are phases of hobby "advancement." One, you decide on what hobby to take on. Then, you buy the tools. For the golfer, it's a bag, clubs, balls, tees and shoes. Third, you need experience. So you go to the driving range. Hit a few balls. You gradually improve. One day, you realize your game's about good as it's going to get. You need a breakthrough...and that requires some advanced coaching. I'm a believer in advanced coaching - advanced education. The next question is: Should you get an M.A. in journalism or communication or an MBA? My answer is: "It depends." It depends on your life plan, your goals and on the effect it'll have on your family.

Before this discussion, I spoke with executive recruiters, senior managers at Kraft and friends with MBAs. They said a master's in communication probably makes sense early in a career, particularly if you choose a specific type of program. For example, the executive recruiter spoke very highly of the program at Northwestern, which is multi-disciplinary. Resoundingly, everyone said that an MBA has value. The executive recruiters said their clients don't expect communicators with MBAs. When they encounter one, they're surprised. It definitely raises their interest.

Bill Kokontis

It's not so much "either or both," but the skill sets those degrees presumably confirm. My business is arcane and not understood. Communication is a problem for us. Product experts can be terrible communicators - but the people who run the show are more comfortable with that expertise. Product know-how or hard-edge business knowledge has more value than communication skills. But that's a cyclical thing. Product life cycles are so much shorter. What was successful yesterday and was a self-selling product is so-so tomorrow. Suddenly it's a scramble for communication skills to put the product back on the map. So, we prize those who have business expertise as well as first-rate communication skills. That's not answering the question of which degree to get. But I would tell everyone to stay in the education stream, whether it's formal schooling or not.

Audience Member:

Are people getting higher salaries for master's degrees?

Jim Sheahan

Absolutely.

Patricia Shafer

Typically it's the marketing or finance person who has an MBA. It's almost a rite of entry. But I spoke to other MBAs who worked for agencies or consulting firms, and they said it didn't increase their salaries at all. What it did was allow them to add more value - and ultimately more opportunity.

Marilyn Moats Kennedy

If you look on the web at salary surveys, you will find that the difference between a bachelor's and the master's is minimal. Here's why. As resumes get scanned into computers, the computer is told, search for: 'B, B.A., M,' whatever. The employer puts the Bs in one pile and the Ms in the other pile and says, "I can have someone with a master's degree for exactly the same price." If I buy Tide and have a dollar-off coupon, wouldn't I be a fool not to redeem the coupon? So. It's changing the way you're screened. Remember. That's a big-company recruiting thing. How many garage-shop operations use scanners?

Audience Member:

I had a question about the professional accreditation IABC offers, the ABC title. Does that have any effect?

Marilyn Moats Kennedy

Anyone out there who's accredited?

Sarah Bornstein, Audience Member Roosevelt University 

I'm an accredited business communicator (ABC). My own sense is the only people who care about it are other accredited business communicators.

The reason to do it is to demonstrate your professionalism. One of the best things about the accreditation process is that it forces you to state objectives, what you accomplished - on something as modest as a newsletter. It's a track record. I'm in human resources. What I'm most proud of is somebody I saved from termination. But I can't parade that person around during a job interview.

I'd like to add something. I switched from communication to human resources. So I read resumes for a living. And I do separate those piles. I go right to the master's, if I can. Now, I work for an educational institution that's obviously going to value higher education.

Other comments?

Audience Member:

How important is it to go for the number one and number two school, rather than finding a more cost-conscious program?

Patricia Shafer

I can't comment on whether it makes a compensation difference. I went through the executive management program at Northwestern and found there is a Northwestern recognition. The same is true of the University of Chicago.

Marilyn Moats Kennedy

Let me argue the other side. If I were to go back and get an MBA today, I would never go to Northwestern. It's the same old stuff. I would go to either Northeastern or UIC (University of Illinois at Chicago), where they would allow me to design my own program. And what I would take in addition to the basic courses: social or cultural anthropology. Why? Because that's the world of the future. The idea of nice, neat balanced sheets in a company is pretty arcane. More big company stuff. Now, if I wanted to be with a big company, sure. Go to a top-ranked school. Because what you're buying in graduate school are your colleagues, not the courses. Ask yourself: What do you want from it? Are you buying a credential? If you are, go for the best. Are you buying your future consulting clients? Do it. Seven out of 10 regional editors of the Wall Street Journal graduated either five years before or five years after each other from Medill. Do you think that helps if you're trying to do publicity? Of course there's a difference. I do think UIC is the most underrated option, because state schools can't afford to teach arcane courses.

You'll meet iconoclasts at UIC. You'll meet the next Bill Gates there. Bill Gates would never sit still at U of C or Northwestern. There'll be some real weirdoes in an offbeat program - the ones who flunked the GRE. They haven't been sanitized out. So that's what you buy. Something different.

Audience member

You talked about "continuing to learn." There's ways to do that besides going to a university - like independent training companies that provide courses and workshops. How do you communicate that you have trained yourself in those ways, as opposed to a nice little set of letters? How do you get that across on a resume that's in one of those piles?

Bill Kokontis

It's reputation. What you've accomplished - and what that reputation boils down to - is word-of-mouth. The resume is becoming outmoded.

Audience member

How do get your foot in the door when you've just moved into a city where no one knows you?

Sarah Bornstein

Communicators have it easier than most job seekers because they have a portfolio. They have demonstrable things to show.

Marilyn Moats Kennedy

Or, redefine the standard. Sell what's different about you. Sometimes you can get in on the basis of "different-ness." Whereas you can never get in on the basis of "better." Because you can't demonstrate "better." But you can illustrate "different."

Carl Zielinski, audience member and seminar orchestrator 

That's a good point. I'm pursuing a master's of writing program at DePaul. On a personal level, I really enjoy it. I bring class experience into my everyday job. But when I tell people, "I'm getting a master's in writing," they say, "what's that?" So I wonder. Is this the right program for my career? How do I use this as leverage for a position?

Marilyn Moats Kennedy

Wonder if you can't? Would you quit?

Carl Zielinski

No.

Marilyn Moats Kennedy

Well. I'd conclude you're in the right program, then. Let me ask our panelists: Would you hire a college drop-out? Suppose this college drop-out has two years of formal college and 43 continuing education courses - and has good skills, the basics. Copywriters at advertising agencies have had this background for a long time. They can be anything. But what about in a more mainstream environment? Would you hire a college drop-out?

Jim Sheahan

Yes, I would hire a college drop-out. A large amount of my staff are in school right now. The city really pushes that. It's hard to tell how people are going to perform, just looking at a resume sheet, or seeing how many degrees they have. I look for people with passion, who adapt and perform well.

Marilyn Moats Kennedy

Pat, would this person have to be better than the people with more education?

Patricia Sharer

This person would have to be qualified to do the job, and have some personal characteristics that Jim talked about. Whether it's passion, or the ability to strengthen relationships in a work environment.

Bill Kokontis

I would agree.

Marilyn Moats Kennedy

So where does this leave it? The water is now muddy. You really don't need a degree at all, if you are extraordinary.

Audience member

If you're an employer and have two pieces of paper in front of you - one resume shows four years of college and experience - and the other has two years of college and experience, where is that person's opportunity to demonstrate this dynamic quality?

Marilyn Moats Kennedy

Networking. They'll never get that from paper.

Audience member

The way we work now is really going to change. The whole hiring process is - ads in the paper, you send your resume, then you're evaluated with 300 other people. The future is personal networking. The resume will still be a tool, but it won't be the be-all, end-all.

Sarah Bornstein

Still, the degree can be a good screen for a job applicant. What does a college degree say about somebody? Not that they're smarter. Not that they're better. Not that they're more dynamic. But it does say that they're likely to be disciplined. That they put up with things semester after semester. And they can deal with the criminally bewildered. Which, frankly, every organization I've ever been in is rife with.

Marilyn Moats Kennedy

Any other questions? No? I just have three comments. First, resumes are changing. If your resume is a history of your life, update your thinking. Resumes are different. They're longer. Meatier. That doesn't mean they're glitzy and full of all the typefaces that WordPerfect offers. Second. Re-think your issues about age. Headhunters represent clients who say, "don't send me anyone under 35. I want someone with my work ethic." That's a whole different view from the old days when we wanted people with "potential." Potential has never been at a lower ebb. Show you can do it somewhere else, then tell employers about it. Third. Generation X wants to be self-employed. And they will say anything to be with a company for three years so they can get out. One of the challenges in the next five years is going to be retention and recruiting. And believe it or not, management will make a comeback. Right now, people don't want to manage. They'd rather be an individual contributor. If you say, "Oh, I just got promoted." All the younger people say, "Oh, that's too bad."

They say, "You could have been at the gym by 5:30 with the rest of us."

You should be more interested in picking an arena than picking a role. Because roles change. If you tell me you have a passion for politics or consumer marketing, then it tells you where you need to be. You know cycles, things like that? Don't think about now. Think about five years from now.

Patricia Shafer

If it's true we're all going to have five or six - not jobs, but careers or professions - the question to ask is, "what do I want to be in my life?'"

Cheryl O'Donovan is a senior marketing/communication specialist with William M. Mercer, Deerfield, Ill.