What managers can find out from exit interviews.

In an era of reengineering and quality initiatives, some employees - usually the ones you least expect - blow out of the organization. If they stay, sometimes reluctantly, they reduce effort. This happens at all levels, physicians, nurses, techs, and support staff. Most physician executives assume the departed didn't agree with what needed to be done. Is this true? What are the best ways to find out? This is no hypothetical, even with layoffs. A labor shortage in health care is looming with the full effect to be felt in the next two or three years.

The myth persists that when employees leave jobs they rarely "dis" the boss or co-workers because they're afraid if they trash a boss, even if every word is true, he/she may retaliate during a reference check. However, even when a departing employee is forthcoming, human resources often conspires to protect senior management from feedback they should have but may not want.

My experience has been that too many sources of useful information are filtered by interested parties before they reach senior management. The fewer barriers between the latter and the front line troops, the better to coach middle management and improve productivity. Only you know what you want/need to know and what it's worth to you. Enter the exit interview.

Exit interviews can give you hints about what's going on that you can't get any other way. For instance, your medical director, who is 1,000 miles away, is abusing alcohol and being protected by his/her long-time assistant to the detriment of the division. An exit interview might confirm your suspicions that when you drop in the situation has been upgraded temporarily.

You can learn more about worker expectations, even if they were disappointed, from exit interviews than from a hiring interview. People store information negatively. That is, people remember what they disliked about a job or boss long after they've forgotten when they liked. Criticism of management's style or lack of leadership will teach you more about the departing employee than about the manager. But, six people who voice the same opinions will change the way you coach the latter. Not many managers anticipate changes in worker expectations until turnover sends a wake-up call.

Exit interviews can also show when situations are worsening before that becomes clear through official channels. The boss who's ballistic over resistance to overtime may be preparing the climate for much higher turnover. A boss who hasn't gauged how resistant to change the clinic staff is, may get an early warning. An exit interview may reveal a developing pattern of departures before the statistics are tabulated.

Recently, two senior managers asked me how to get honest feedback during exit interviews, especially from the 20-somethings, who are both more mobile and closed-mouthed than any other group. it can be done, but do you really want to know? Are you prepared for the fallout if you uncover that some of your supervisors or managers range from ineffective to toxic? Are you prepared to hear that your clinical initiatives are considered laughable by the physician staff?

The ostrich in every manager asserts itself when confronted with a seriously-disgruntled employee. For example, Joe has the highest turnover in the organization, and 100 percent of those leaving, when pressed, say he's ineffective and can give convincing examples. Will you alter the team structure based on what you learn? Don't consider asking questions you don't want answered. Remember, by asking a questions you raise an expectation that something will change. However, if nothing will change, what's the point of soliciting feedback? If people give feedback and nothing is done, everyone hears about it. Just because an employee is gone, doesn't mean he/she is out of touch with former co-workers. In fact, networking among former employees has reached such heights that some hospitals have asked departing employees to promise not to recruit former co-workers when they take new positions.

If these caveats don't discourage you, here are some guidelines for finding out what's really going on without wrecking the political climate and sending turnover to new levels - including among those who've been dissed. Keep in mind, though, while exit interviews can offer harbingers or they can seal someone's fate, they are never stand-alone sources of information.

Expect reluctance at the beginning. For senior managers to talk with department employees can seem uncomfortably similar to an open-door policy. Why does the boss think he/she needs this kind of information? Why doesn't he/she let HR handle it? Do not offer any explanations other than your desire to understand first-hand why people leave.

Target your interviews. Don't expect to interview every departing employee. You'll get the most information from those who've been in the area less than a year or more than five. Why? Short-term employees, not steeped in the organization's history and culture. are twice as likely as long-term employees to see negatives. The latter have gotten used to the situation. Second, five years in a job is when I see the build-up of dissatisfaction. Headhunters confirm this. An employee who's been only mildly irritated for several years may decide he/she can't endure another minute and blow out, even without another job. Both groups are worth talking to.

Protect the messengers. A whiff that a reference was affected by information from an exit interview, and only every present and former employee will know. That sort of news spreads faster than any other, except news of a layoff. Too many managers promise discretion and then act on what they've learned in such a way that everyone knows the information came from a departing employee. Perhaps in exchange for information, you can promise the confessor you'll provide the reference instead of letting his/her current boss do so or give him her a glowing written reference.

Calculate the risks to your management team. If you announce you'll be doing random exit interviews, you may get some confessions before you've done a single one, an unexpected bonus. A senior vice president for medical affairs in a hospital found that several of his direct reports were anxious to discuss their work allocation decisions before departing employees gave their versions. Another vice president found out more than she'd expected from two managers with no turnover will anticipated that when people did leave, they would not go quietly.

Ask the right questions. Managers who ask what the departing employee liked and/or disliked about the job deserve the platitudes they get. instead, ask what could @not should@ be done differently. Strive for a neutral tone. Don't assume the individual has grievances lie she won't share. Instead, think about your questions as a series of tests. Ask about time frames. Did getting results Lake longer or less time than he/she expected? Ask for comparisons with other jobs. Does this organization have more, the same, or less bureaucracy than he/she has experienced in the past? Ask about barriers t@@ getting the job done. What could have made him/her more productive and more effective? Ask about workload. How would he/she have allocated what needed to be done? Probe the cliches such as, "Everybody worked pretty hard," or "We lacked effective leadership."

Look for patterns and think long-term. Everyone has performance ups and downs. However, one of top management's jobs is to coach subordinates to smooth these curves by preparing their subordinates for change. If you're succession planning with half a dozen managers, and you have several years to make a choice, exit interviews can help you focus developmental efforts and training.

One senior vice president I talked to had all but given up on his medical director until he be an to pick u more favorable comments. When three nurses and a tech said they'd moved on solely because they wanted to relocate to warmer climates and regretted leaving the medical director, my client began to re-evaluate his opinions.

Even the most disgruntled employee, who feels him/herself wronged by the organization can provide feedback that helps management prepare the troops for change and lead them through it. The trick is to create a climate in which getting back feedback is both possible and probable.

Key Concepts: Exit Interviews/Employee Feedback/A Way to Improve Productivity

What are the best ways to find out not only why people leave the organization, but how to improve the environment and increase productivity for those that stay? Exit interviews can give You hints about what's going on that you can't get any other way. You can learn more about worker expectations, even if they were disappointed from exit interviews than from a hiring interview. Exit interviews can also show when situations are worsening before that becomes clear through official channels. An exit interview may reveal a developing pattern of departures before the statistics are tabulated. Here are some guidelines for finding out what's really going on without wrecking the political climate and sending turnover to new levels.

Marilyn Moats Kennedy is Managing Partner, Career Strategies, Inc., Wilmette, Illinois, and a long-time member of the ACPE faculty. She may be reached at 1150 Wilmette Avenue, Wilmette, Illinois 60091, 847/251-1661, fax [phone].