Welcome to summer camp: Nicole Kidman and writer Paul Rudnick talk about remaking The Stepford Wives in an era when "traditional values" are scarier than ever.

From a gay man's satirical take on traditional marriage to some sexy gay romances, The Advocate's annual guide to the season's most intriguing films

If Walking Tall and The Punisher and all the other vengeance movies this year have been Hollywood's response to 9/11, then the new remake of The Stepford Wives just might be the gay mafia's response to the current debate about "protecting traditional marriage." Out mogul Scott Rudin teamed his In & Out writer Paul Rudnick with Nicole Kidman, the Oscar-winning star of Rudin's The Hours, in this reinterpretation of Ira Levin's spooky novel (originally adapted to film in 1975) about a Connecticut suburb whose veneer of "perfect" wives hides a disturbing secret.

Rudnick, who previously blended laughs with chills in the Addams Family films, saw this as a remake ripe for someone with his wicked gifts. "I looked at a Pauline Kael review of the original film," he says, "and site said she felt that the comedy was so inherent in this material that she wondered why the earlier film hadn't brought that out to a greater degree. So I felt emboldened." And on the heels of such serious epics as The Hours, Dogville, and Cold Mountain, this sci-fi satire gave Kidman an all-too-rare chance to show the comic chops that won her such acclaim in Gus Van Sant's To Die For. Kidman and Rudnick's mutual admiration was evident in a phone interview with The Advocate.

Given the look of the film, I have to ask you both: Did you play with Barbies growing up?

Kidman: [Laughs] Paul? You want to go first?

Rudnick: We did have this discussion, I think, on the set one day that there is something very Barbie-like about the Stepford Wives. I always think it's because they're a combination of something that's very alluring and very scary at the same time.

Kidman: That's a good way to put it, because I was forbidden to have a Barbie as a child.

Really?

Kidman: I had a strong feminist mother, and so she said that to have that as an ideal given to a young girl was wrong--you know, the whole political reason. So I wasn't allowed to have a Barbie.

Rudnick: But did you have a Barbie anyway?

Kidman: I loved Barbie! I didn't care! I went to the supermarket once and I took one, and she made me take it back. When she realized I'd resorted to stealing a Barbie doll, then she actually bought me one, because site said, "OK, a political view shouldn't be imprinted on her just yet."

In a time when gays and lesbians are fighting for the right to get their own taste of whatever you think of as traditional marriage, this movie draws on the notion that if you're really talking tradition, you're talking about wives as property.

Rudnick: Yeah, it's different, isn't it, to have a frighteningly traditional community with a real twist? I think there is a certain yearning for what's considered the ideal small town, and what adds the darkness is that the women in that ideal small town are usually baking something at all times. It's interesting--I remember from the early days of planning on Stepford Wives we were discussing what the wives themselves would wear, what the look and the aura would be. We had this genius costume designer, Ann Roth, and there was tiffs sense that if you pushed it too far in the male-fantasy direction, they'd become hookers, they'd become showgirls. There was something more Connecticut and suburban that we were after.

Kidman: Also, they almost become more powerful. Because I originally saw it as the ideal sort of sex bomb, the Pamela Anderson--type look. And in a weird way, that is almost more powerful than wearing an apron.

Rudnick: Exactly, yes, we were going for something more submissive and genteel.

Kidman: Right. Yes.

Sort of like "burkas by Laura Ashley"?

Kidman: That doesn't threaten at all.

Rudnick: Right. But still sexual in a certain sense: the nice girl in the apron who's still at the beck and call of her lord and master. Just the very idea of creating the perfect woman, there's a sort of costume and theater to that. But you start to deal with those archetypes and it's kind of fascinating because some of them are real throwbacks--that sense of "OK, any really contemporary woman becomes very threatening." You suddenly want Donna Reed in an apron again.

Kidman: [Chuckles] You wrote that wonderful speech that I give to Matthew [Broderick] at the end. Well, we can't talk about it, can we, but where I asked Matthew "Do you really want this?" and Matthew answered--as Matthew--"Yes!" [All laugh]

Rudnick: Oh, that's the thing. Everybody's capable of wanting that degree of control over someone else, especially over the person that they're married to, that sense of "I love them and I want them to behave the way I want them to." That's a common urge, and it's very, dangerous. One of my first inspirations was the idea of sitting on the couch next to your spouse, male or female or whomever, and they're whining or nagging or doing whatever most irritates you, and you've got the remote in your hand--that moment you think, What if it was truly a universal remote? What if I aim to my right and press the mute?

When religious conservatives in this country talk about how things used to be so much better, you want to remind them, "Yeah, as long as you were a rich white Christian man, because you weren't hearing about everybody else's problems. They were shoved off into a corner somewhere." What comes with people being equal is, you don't get to hide everything in the kitchen anymore.

Kidman: Yeah, but there's certainly now another set of problems. But I think that's part of humanity, isn't it? That's part of saying, "OK, we'll let you be equal." I would much prefer everything to be out and everybody dealing with it rather than us all pretending it's not there.

Rudnick: Right. And the suburbs are often the capital of hiding things--whether it's the traditional suburb filled with alcoholism and adultery, or Stepford's, which has even greater technological secrets.

Kidman: But at the same time I'm a huge believer in being able to say, "No, this is my privacy," and having that respected. The problem now, a lot of times, is that there isn't a lot of respect for someone just saying, "You want to know something? That's none of your business." And there's also a breakdown in basic manners. [Laughs] Maybe that's me as a mother talking! I suppose it's basically about respecting everybody as an individual, and if you can start with that, then that's what makes the world go round. It's a far more interesting world that way.

Rudnick: And there is a gay couple in Stepford, played deliciously by David Marshall Grant and Roger Bart. I thought that certainly the urge to turn your partner into a robot knows no gender-preference barriers. So I thought that that was another way of making sure that it was a very up-to-the-minute Stepford. Because there is this urge toward the suburbs on the part of so many gay people. It's kind of double-edged for me--I grew up in the suburbs, and I think on one hand, it's everyone's basic civil right to be married, have kids, move to the suburbs, and be as miserable as any heterosexual. [Laughs] But I understand both sides. The urge for a kind of pastoral happiness--the urge for a family and for the comfort and security and pleasure that a suburb can provide--it's completely understandable. On the other hand, I think there is a real concern about assimilation: "Does equality have to equal conformity and imitation?" It's a question thai every individual resolves for him-or herself.

Kidman: I think change is good. That's where I stand on [gay marriage]. But I'm not well-versed enough in it. I haven't been following it closely enough to speak with a lot of influence, to be honest.

Nicole, you were so amazing in To Die For. I think a lot of people are wondering why it's taken you this long to do another comedy.

Kidman: [Giggles] Because I didn't have Paul Rudnick write one for me!

Rudnick: Aw! That's very kind!

Kidman: I just haven't had the opportunity. I think also, where I went as a person, I went into a place that was very complicated and dark, and the way that came out was through my work. And so my choices were ... there wasn't a great deal of humor in that. I was far more interested in Virginia Woolf and Dogville. There were things that I was interested in--damaged women, damaged people--that I was exploring. And then Scott Rudin said to me, "You've got to go to summer camp, Nicole." [All laugh]

Rudnick: It turned into fall and winter camp as well!

Kidman: But I thought, That is a very good idea! I've always wanted to go to summer camp, especially with Bette Midler! [Laughs] I tend to take Scott's advice. There are a few people in this world that you go, "This is a very smart person who you have an enormous amount of respect for," and Scott Rudin is one of them.

Rudnick: Oh, exactly! Scott's pretty extraordinary. I just find that I can trust him, which is certainly an absolute contradiction in terms for anyone working in Hollywood. [Laughs] He's a very passionate guy.

Is it a culture shock for you, Nicole, to go from a movie like this, where it's dripping with art direction and general lushness, to Sweden and making Dogville on a stage with chalk marks?

Kidman: Yeah. It's erratic and crazy. It's a crazy life. Being an actor is a ridiculous profession. But at the same time, I'm so blessed to have it as my self-expression. You get to go from no set and Scandinavian angst into a group of people who are saying, "Let's laugh at ourselves--let's also try to say something, but let's have fun doing it."

Well, your career kind of follows that Catherine Deneuve model, where you do the big-budget mainstream film and then a Lars von Trier movie. I think that's what makes your work really exciting, that you can do Moulin Rouge and The Others in the course of a year.

Kidman: And that was luck. As much as it looks like some kind of great career plan, it was luck. It was Baz Luhrmann, whom I'd known for years--he's one of my closest friends--going, "Ah, finally, I'm going to make a musical. Will you be in it?" And then I was just reading the script of The Others and going, "God--this guy's interesting! Yeah, yeah, I'll go to Madrid!" There was no great plan behind it; it just happened to fall into my lap at that stage, and I responded to it.

Rudnick: Was The Others shot in Madrid?

Kidman: Yeah.

Rudnick: 'Cause [ think that is such a sensational movie, and it feels so English, like it was shot on the moors.

Kidman: Yeah, he wanted to use his own crew. He's Spanish and he didn't actually speak fluent English, Alejandro [Amenabar], so lie wouldn't leave Madrid. And that was one of those things--he said, "Listen, you've got to come to me." As did Lars. Paul, if you said that, I'd come to you too. [Laughs] But I kind of like venturing into some body else's territory, you know? Actually, even doing Stepford was like that for me, because I was venturing into new territory in terms of comedy.

For both of you, as actress and writer, did you find yourself adapting to working with a cast who have such different styles of performing?

Kidman: It was more like this incredibly eclectic trove of treasures. It was just fabulous to watch Chris Walken working with Bette Midler and Glenn Close, and then seeing Matthew Broderick just come in and make a scene work. That was how it came about that I would do [the new film musical of] The Producers, actually, after working with Matthew. Because Matthew and Roger Bart said to me, "Would you do The Producers? Mel [Brooks] wants to call you." And I said, "Yes, get him to call me, of course I'll do it!" I suppose that's how I make my decisions, based on the people. I loved Matthew and Roger.

Rudnick: Oh, there were absolutely changes made, both in terms of story line and in giving the performers more material. Once we cast Jon Lovitz as Butte Midler's husband, that seemed like a golden opportunity. They were so funny together as a couple, we immediately thought, Oh, yes, let's give them more to do.

Given this film's story--being a working mother yourself and baying been at one point a working wife--have you ever felt that pressure to back-burner your own career to deal more with your family? Have you found the right balance to keep yourself and everybody else happy?

Kidman: I drink I have no balance whatsoever. [Laughs] Unfortunately, balance is not my strong point. And so I think that's where I make my mistakes, in a way. At the same time, I'm still trying to work it out. I'm at a point where I'm going, OK, well, I know I only have a couple of years before I'm going to be out of work and I'm going to stop. I've expressed that time and time again. That's a very, yew definite notion for me, that I'm leaving to work on other things I want to do with my life. You know, I silent my 20s as a wife with kids, really--everything surrounded them, and creating a home was more important to me than my work. And that was film, actually. That was OK. When that fell apart, then I went, Oh, my God, OK--well, I'll work, that's what I'll do! And by that stage my kids were much older. I mean, I've got a girl who's just about to turn 12.

Nicole, whore do you think of yourself in the gay lexicon? Do you feel like you've got a strong gay male following?

Kidman: Oh, I would hope so! It would mean a lot to me. I suppose I've always been attracted to the theater since I was a kill, so that's an important thing to me. It just is. [Laughs] I hold it in high regard--I really do. And I'm not being facetious. It's interesting, because there's an enormous loyalty amongst a gay following. All the way from To Die For on through, I've had this kind of thing. It's nice to know. I certainly feel the support and offer it back.

Have you seen a drag queen do your character from Moulin Rouge, by chance?

Kidman: I have! [Laughs] I'm Australian! They do it at the gay Mardi Gras! I've got to go and perform at the gay Mardi Gras in Australia. That's something I know I have to do.

Oh, please, yes.

Kidman: At midnight, you do the performance. I meant to do it during Moulin Rouge, but I wasn't really that well-known then. And now I would love to go back. Kylie Minogue goes back and does it. I would love to do that.

Kylie knows where her bread is buttered with the gays.

Kidman: Yeah! Well, and also just because Baz and I, that feeds a lot of Baz's work. the gay Mardi Gras in Australia is a huge, huge event. I say to everybody, "Go, because it's worth seeing and it's just the best time. It's the best time of your life." It really is. And I've been going since ... gosh, I'm not even allowed to say. Since it was illegal. [Laughs] But really, it's 48 hours of pure pleasure, put it that way.

Rudnick: It is. I went to the gay Mardi Gras there, and it was amazing because there were so many different enormous halls. There were so many simultaneous events that it was really like eight Mardi Gras.

Kidman: And there's a massive embracing by the city. It's almost like the next day is a holiday. That's Sydney for you.

Rudnick: I was thinking about this, because I think Nicole only has to work on one thing if she's going to become a complete gay icon. That's because she's so extraordinarily talented and so disciplined and so generous ...

Kidman: Not really.

Rudnick: Oh, my God, yes! The only thing that's lacking is, you need a drug or alcohol problem! [All laugh]

Kidman: I don't think I'm ever going to have that, somehow.

Rudnick: Oh, well.

Kidman: I've managed to avoid it till now, and I'm 36 years old. Well, I hope that people like Stepford. We certainly made it with a lot of fun and a lot of joy involved.

Rudnick: A lot of very high heels.

Kidman: Yeah, a lot of very high heels, a lot of blond hair. [Laughs] And some push-up bras!

Rudnick: Oh, my God! That's what I was always so amazed at with Nicole and with all the other wives--what they endured! That it was without complaint. That side of it was so impressive, the amount of time that you could spend in those heels and that wig.

Kidman: But it's a lot of fun. You sit down in the chair and two hours later you feel, "Whoa! I am Barbie!"

Rudnick: There is one sort of amazingly iconic moment, inspired by a moment in the earlier film, that Nicole roles--when she appears as a complete Stepford goddess in a supermarket. [Kidman laughs] That's breathtaking.

Kidman: Who knows, who knows. It was certainly fun to push that trolley. [Laughs]

Rudnick: With that much detergent in it.

So, Nicole, according to time magazine, you're one of the 100 most influential people on the planet. What would you like to do with that?

Kidman: Ay-yi-yi! [Laughs] No, to answer it seriously, with any sort of influence, I suppose I'd just say to people to please be unjudgmental and full of kindness, and let's try to use words and not guns.

Amen.

Rudnick: Now I think you should be number 1 on that list.

Kidman: [Laughs] That's what I would say. But I don't really ... I mean, who's going to listen to me?

Kidman and Rudnick serve up dish on camp, Dogville, and Maric X in interview outtakes on www.advocate.com.