The chronicle interview.

Ousmane Sy is the key figure of decentralization and reform of governance in his country Mali, as well as in the subregion of West Africa, where he strives for the implementation of reform of governance at the local and national levels to go hand in hand with that at the regional level. From 1993 to 2000, he ran the "Mission for decentralization and institutional reforms", a process conducted at the request of the new democratic administration. He joined the Government of Mali in 2000 as Minister of Territorial Administration and Local Communities and organized the presidential elections of 2002. Mr. Sy is the founder and Regional Coordinator of the "Dialogue on Governance in Africa" network, currently covering 14 nations in western and central Africa. He is also the Director of the Centre for Political and Institutional Expertise in Africa (CEPIA).

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Ousmane Sy was awarded the King Baudouin International Development Prize 2004-2005 (see photo) "for the strength of his vision and the courage of his convictions on the subject of governance in Africa, and for the originality of his campaigns in Mali by which, through a participatory process of decentralization and the organization of transparent elections, he has succeeded in creating an environment conducive to a better public administration and increased stability".

Russell Taylor of the UN Chronicle spoke with Mr. Sy on 26 May 2005 at UN Headquarters in New York.

On the role of decentralization for democracy-building in Mali

Decentralization emerged as a natural process in Mali in the early 1990s, following the end of 23 years of military dictatorship. There were two major objectives for the decentralization process: the first was to deepen and extend the process of democratization, and the second to see how we could promote democratization in the country, starting with local efforts. And this happened to coincide with the country's economy recovering from structural adjustment measures, which had led to an economic crisis. The whole process of decentralization would also revive, it was hoped, the development of the economy.

In the sub-Saharan subregion, West African States inherited colonial structures and administrations, which had undergone a terrible crisis since the 1980s. Decentralization emerged as a response to such crises in post-colonial States, allowing a consolidation of the democratic process by widening its base, and securing it at the local level by submitting democratization to the test of reality on a local scale. It also helped to revitalize the local economy by bringing political decision-making closer to local agents, thus permitting a renewed approach to development.

Africa is now experiencing an economic crisis, due in particular to the scarcity of resources and the difficulty to access basic infrastructure facilities. Thus, decentralization is not just seen as a reform of the administrative structure, but rather as a reform of a political nature, going deep into the roots of the country. All this contributes to ensuring the sustainability of development in our country.

I was in charge of the technical mission for seven years. The President of Mali, Alpha Omar Konare, then asked me to turn from technical to political work, by taking on the Ministry of Territorial Administration and Local Communities. When the decentralization operation began, Mali had 19 urban communes. Five years later, in 1998, 703 communes were created (grouped into 49 circles and 8 regions), with local people involved in creating them.

Beyond the organization of democratic elections and the fight against corruption, decentralization has produced a new vision of governance. Until then, most people saw the aim of governance as an extremely artificial notion, because the exercise of power and thus the administration of democracy at the national level were concentrated in the hands of very few people.

On the process of decentralization

Decentralization is rooted in the principle of participation, encouraging people to state their needs in an open dialogue with the public administration. It has opened up governance to the greatest possible number of people, and those in control at any level must now account for their actions. The decision makers are those on the ground--local people--not those appointed by the central government. Decentralization has allowed us to create an effective monitoring system, since it gives people the chance to question municipal councils. It has acted as a synonym for the recognition of linguistic and cultural diversity, and has even helped to ensure civil peace with the Tuareg movements in the north of the country.

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We do this through a range of networks, which help in involving partner organizations. We also call them colleges, formed by various interest groups, such as women, youth, universities, peasants or farmers, as well as the elite. We discuss with them matters of governance concerning local management of their own affairs and we support them by suggesting methods and documentation. These colleges, in turn, gather information on their everyday experiences with the administration. When we sit down and discuss with them the information they have collected, there is an exchange of ideas. We analyze such information and, based on their feedback, we try to formulate proposals for implementing practical measures. These are then discussed--the final stage before implementation.

On resistance in implementing decentralization

Resistance was initially linked to simple fear of any change, and the changes themselves upset vested interests; we are still encountering that kind of opposition in all fields. We found ourselves in a political process and decided that we should continue with it as it was. The political engagement is what has been carrying me forward even today, the fact that Africa, and the African community, could continue in this way to improve its condition. As a matter of fact, things are moving in the region. It may not be perceived as such by the world at large, but it is there, and one can rely on that as the foundation on which we will be able to raise Africa to such a level where it assumes its proper status in the eyes of the world. And the conviction that change is possible stems from the fact that we see it happening in Mali, and it leads us to believe that if it can happen in my country, why could it not happen in other places?

All my writings and work are designed to demonstrate that changes can be made, under certain conditions, where decentralization, regional integration and better governance, inspired by the experiences of Africans, are among those at the top of the list. Winning the King Baudouin International Development Prize lends fresh visibility to our activities.

On the significance for Africa of the process of decentralization in Mali

We are working on various levels, from the local to the regional level. The next step is to bring the discussion to the "continental level", to see what Africa can do in an era of management and governance, taking into consideration the diversity of various problems. The idea is to begin a process whereby it will be possible for the region to have its own vision of governance, correcting the impression that it is always accepting ideas from the outside and will be able to generate its own ideas and solutions.

We quickly realized that the issue of governance, induced by decentralization, did not only concern States but could also be seen in terms of regional integration. A network has emerged in nine countries (eight in West Africa and Cameroon), which pool their experiences at the local level. We must not forget that it was Senegal that carried through the very first decentralization experience. Other experiences may be found in Burkina Faso, Benin and Guinea. There have been exchanges between these countries, and a network--"Dialogue on Governance in Africa"--bringing together actors from 14 countries, has been created. All this is happening at a moment when the Organization of African Unity (OAU) has transformed itself into the African Union. The African Union has a continental vision, and we feel that the time is right for discussions within the Union about the situation and strategies that should be devised and implemented for each of the African subregions.

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On the role of the international community

The discussions in Africa not only show clearly the cost of governance that we are experiencing at the regional level, but also point to its roots in the development cooperation crisis at the international level. In matters of development cooperation, the external partners are also directly involved in the process. The crisis we are experiencing cannot be resolved as long as a solution has not been found for the crisis in development cooperation. Our hope is that there will be a new partnership for the development of Africa. The United Nations should take a leadership role in establishing a new charter for development cooperation.

On the importance of the MDGs

The Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) are a big improvement on what had been achieved previously. It mobilizes all partners in development so that Africa may reach these goals. However, although we have the MDGs as an objective, we do not speak in any way about the modalities or the form in which these goals should be obtained. I think this set of goals could be improved upon and should be completed, as a matter of fact. I also think these objectives are too focused on the fight against poverty. Partnerships for development should take a longer view than just the elimination of poverty, and should have a long-term vision on how Africa could help itself in developing its own laws, with the cooperation of all Africans.

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The MDGs are supposedly measures to be taken by Governments, yet we find that there are manifold actors in their implementation, and that this plurality stems from the fact that we have to have several levels of society, each striving for these goals. This also applies to the territorial dimension in the implementation of the MDGs; not all countries are the same, not all regions are the same, especially in matters of health and education. Problems and opportunities vary from one country to another, from one region to another.