The Roots.

SMOKING GROOVES TOUR, UNIVERSAL AMPHITHEATER, HOLLYWOOD. It was hella weird walking through Universal City going to the show, kinda like going to watch a dope hip-hop show in Disneyland while it's still open to the public. Once inside we headed backstage and posted up at the bar. Hey, free drink, and we needed a few of them after wading through all those frenzied, consumer crazed tourists. It was now 7pm, the after-party was in full effect and the show hadn't even begun. The place was cracking, gorgeous sexy girls everywhere, and we were getting krunked. This was def the mos' happening spot in Hollywood. We had Dr Dre, Truth Hurts and their entourage chilling on the low over there, KRS ONE kicking it with the Roots right here, Jaguar Wright, Cody Chesnutt, J5 and Outkast lamping. I just wished Sheiblack was there but he was still on tour in Paris with the Arcade team gassing on the French gangstaz sportin' Mickey Mouse socks. Twelve beers later and back at the after party I found a minute to talk to Black Tho ught, ?uestlove and the 5th Dynasty Roots crew about what's poppin' back in Ill-adelph, Michael Jackson raising his fist, and the new Roots album Phrenology.

What's "phrenology" mean?

Phrenology is the study of the brain or how it operates, you know, the particular components that effect the nerves and the thought process, and the study of the size of the head. We just wanted to tie it into subject matters.

How is this Roots album different from other Roots albums?

This is probably our most aggressive, our fastest record yet; very aggressive. We just made a list of things we hadn't done before-songs over 100 bpm, guitars. It's not a typical sounding Roots album. We added guitars to it. It's rock. It's a lot of elements. It's very aggressive. People are getting tired of the same formula. They want something more avante garde, more innovative.

Who produced the new album?

The Roots always produce their own material. Who else you got up on there?

Talib Kweli, Jill Scott, Nelly Furtado, James Blood Ulmer--the radical, insane, crazy guitar player-and Amir Baraka, the poet.

Is there a backlash to the bling-bling coming?

I have not seen evidence of it. Nelly is having the biggest record of his recording career tight now. Obviously the taste of the public has not died down for that stuff. Honestly, on the real I don't even concern myself with that anymore. My main concern is that there is a balance in the system and that some art-based hip-hop can get out to the masses, 'cause right now people are not responding to what they don't know. Most people are just afraid to think on their own.

Like they're just sheep and need to be fed and lead?

Yeah. Like it's not legitimate unless it's on TV 50 times a week.

The Roots have been around for 10 years, keeping it real and progressing way beyond the boundaries of hip-hop. How do you feel in the music industry of today?

We go under the industry There is no subculture anymore, hip-hop used to be the subculture of the music industry; it was the underground. Now it's the mainstream of the music industry. As a result it becomes problematic for the underworld without having its own identity. Most of the status quo refuse to recognize hip-hop as an art form. If something gets validated by a conservative group of people then it's legitimate, like classical music, then it's an art form. Hip-hop is an art form.

How much of an influence have The Roots been an cats in the industry? Everyone has got bands now.

I mean, yeah, they told us, "Yo! Man, you raised the stakes and we all got to do it." The important thing is not even about the band-at the end of the day you have to be great.

You have played with pretty much everyone in the industry. Who is left that you really wanna play with?

We pretty much played with everyone that we admire, but it's my dream to put Michael Jackson back in a place where he is not the punch line anymore.

On the subject of Michael Jackson, how do you feel about his claim of the music biz being run by racists?

Not even gonna take that.. .err, he is crazy, that is obvious. He speaks the truth, but he is very delusional about his status in the marketplace. I mean, someone in his camp must know that anything he does has to be Al perfect, it has to be nine-times perfect, one illionth of a flaw and it's curtains,, and that is how he has to approach his work. I think he has just had the wake up call. He always really knew he was black. I never thought I'd see Michael Jackson with his fist up.

BET did a survey up in Harlem about this and nine out of 10 black people said they don't even consider him to be black anymore.

I know he is black and tight now the public reaction to his freakish nature is like being black. At least five times a day, I am reminded that I'm a freak. I stay in five-star hotels and I get in the elevator and people are like, "Aaahhh!" Then it's like, "Alleyways and cuts?"

Don't that shit piss you off?

In Italy once I caused a car crash, that was the sweetest revenge. It was the sweetest vindication I have ever had in my life. Four assholes were driving in their car in Rome and they rode by me, rolled down the window, shouted out derogatory comments, and drove straight into a pole.

Instant Karma?

Fuck it, I didn't feel bad. I went straight to McDonald's.

What's the vision behind your label Okay Player?

Everyone in the industry trying to be a Jordan or an Iverson, but no one is thinking about being a waterboy or an assistant trainer, who becomes the trainer, who becomes the owner. No one is thinking about that. They're just thinking about the fame and money.

Philly is hot again. There's a huge musical history there.

Yeah, just got to say Philly has a tradition and we are just continuing that history. There is a doo-wop history that has been established by Philadelphia. There is a rock and roll history with American Bandstand being the epicenter of dance culture way back before Saul Train. Disco music was invented in Philadelphia.

Disco started in Philly?

Gamble and Huff, they started disco. Gangsta rap started in Philly with Schooly D. The best DJs who inspired Q-Bert, Skratch Piklz, the X-Ecutioners are Jazzy Jeff and Cash Money from Philly. They were the first to do all those tricks, and we are just continuing that tradition.

What about Philly now, who is poppin'?

Philly's Most Wanted, Beanie Siegal, Eve, The Roots, Bilal, Jaguar, Jill Scott, Musiq Soulchild--there are a lot of fledgling labels and artists in Philly, and it's very active.

You know Stevie Williams?

Yeah, we know about Stevie.

How did you find Jaguar Wright and Jill Scott?

We have a forum called Black Lilly, they are jam sessions we started in our living room, and ended up at a club in New York and Philly and now it's in Philly and London. That's how that all came together.

How do you think black people are represented politically today?

Two words: They're not. They were so relieved to be rid of Bush and Reaganomics and to have Clinton that they lost a lot of their fire and their political awareness and their fight. As a result of that, black people are not politically aware anymore.

MTV mass media bought them off?

It's the age of irony, it started with the grunge movement in 1991. Middle class white kids trying to be grungy, basically how black kids live, and then now we have black kids trying to live a glitzy-ass, diamond, white life.

Is MTV a good thing for black people? Does it give them hope or is it just papering over the cracks of what's really going on in America?

The Viacom market machine is cool--if Viacom plays my videos my reality gets better. If you become part of a big machine you can benefit, but really what mass media machine is good for the people? It's all about serving one purpose: the dollar.

Whassup with Mumia Abu-Jamal right now?

As far as the black community?

Yeah? What will happen if he is killed?

It really has no effect. I mean, black people are so numbed to any kind of tragedy I don't think they feel anything short of Armageddon. I ain't trying to be cold--the end of the world can come anytime to anyone, but when you are sitting in the projects sharing a bowl of cereal and no milk with your three brothers, it's like "Oh well." I mean, 9 / 11 was just another day on the calendar.

Which one of you cats skate?

Me...Ben Kinner.

What skaters you feeling?

I like Zoo York, Think...I am definitely down with Think. They make good decks; Venture trucks, Spitfire wheels, I like that Tommy Guerrero sequence on those hills in Frisco.

Did you ever skate Love Park?

No, I never went to Love 'cause their was a lot of really good skaters there, the vibe got a little too heavy. I skate whenever I can. I live in Philly and I don't drive a car so I either walk, take public transport, or I skate and go and bug out. Philly is the anti-skate city, we got fucking cobble streets, but I like going to FDR on a Saturday morning.

Love and shouts to tha 215?

Thank you, everyone. To all our Love Partners, you know who you are, and to all the people who come to the live shows and watch us.