Rev. Timothy McDonald: the progressive minister advocates gay rights, but not marriage.

EARLIER THIS YEAR, your church, the First Iconium Baptist Church in Atlanta, hosted a summit where activists and ministers from around the country discussed how to make Black churches more inclusive of gays and lesbians. What was the most significant thing that came out of the summit for you? Hearing the stories of those who are gay and lesbian who are struggling to be a part of the Black church and how they are being treated. What stood out were people who were still loving and caring for their family members who were gay and lesbian, and that kind of stuck with me because what I have discovered is that it's not just an individual thing. It is indeed a family thing, and that means it's a community concern as well.

What are your feelings about gay marriage? I could not see myself performing a ceremony between two people of the same sex, which I said even prior to the summit. But what I am is open. I don't believe in discrimination. I believe that there should be rights that heterosexuals have that people of same-sex relationships should have as well.

How do you think progressives should deal with gay issues? Deal with the issue of discrimination. Deal with the issue of fairness. What's fair and what's just for every American citizen regardless of their sexual orientation. Just what's fair and what's just.

Doesn't anything less than marriage mean gays and lesbians aren't fully accepted? I disagree with that. I still accept you. I'm just not going to perform a marriage. I went to city hall, and I was one of those who got beat up there because I said there should be civil unions. There should be the recognition of rights.

How do you think dialogue can happen with ministers who didn't come to the summit? I told the group [the National Black Justice Coalition that organized the event]: "The next time, if you really want to get some people there, just talk about the Black church and sexuality. Make sure you get gay people there. Make sure you create a dialogue. But if you just say gay, you're going to automatically close the door to some people."

I read that many years ago you changed your own thinking about gay issues because of a man in your parish who died of AIDS. What that situation did for me, it made me go back and rethink what I had been taught. No one said anything more against gays than I did when I was growing up, because that's what I was taught. That was my tradition, my culture, and all of those adults and elders above me, that's what they believed. But when I came in contact with a real person who loved the church, who loved the Lord, who loved me, I had to just say, "Hey, I have got to back up and rethink and regroup." And it wasn't a dramatic kind of thing. It was a gradual kind of situation of reflection and wanting to be inclusive of any and all who the Lord sent. It was a transforming process, but it was not dramatic.

What kind of support did you have through that process? You're talking about the '80s. And you just didn't talk about this back in the '80s, so you just kind of dealt with it.

What would be helpful to pastors who are getting resistance within their own church? You have got to have discussions. We had six weeks of Bible study that dealt with sexuality. Four of those weeks we dealt with the whole issue of homosexuality and who said what and what the Bible says and what the Bible doesn't say.

What was that conversation like? The issue in the Black community is this: most people in the Black community felt people choose to be gay. Nobody's born that way. And so that's the question. My thing is, is it possible that anybody can be born this way? Or are you saying that every single one of them chose to be? And then you go talk to a gay person, and they will just tell you straight out, "There's no way I'd choose this, given all the hell that I catch." So you have to step back and say okay, well that makes sense. So that's the fundamental question in the Black community. Is it by choice, or is it by birth?

If someone had said to you 30 years ago that your church is going to be hosting this gay and lesbian summit, what would you have thought? I would have been the traditional non-supportive pastor 30 years ago. That's the way I was. And I thank God for my journey, and I tell folks right now: "I have in no way arrived. I am still on a journey. I am still listening and learning and asking God to speak to me in new and different ways." And He will send people along your path who will be different, who will challenge you and that's not a bad thing. That's a good thing.