Record Investigation: The murder of Arlene Fraser: The Vanishing; The Tapes.

These are the

crucial excerpts from the two

whispered 

conversations Fraser had with

his pal Glenn Lucas. Ironically Lucas, who was constantly

accusing police of harassing his mate, helped nail Fraser in the end

From Porterfield Prison security tape one, July 27, 2000.

Lucas: "...there isn't anything in it, Hecky told me...he got every bit of mud off, he was telling me he scraped it off...rid of all the mud.

"about 120, that's it, I thought...found her but it's been a long time.

"...or everything will come out so it's important to leave it."

Fraser says: "...I mean did you (gesture with hands) under the floorboards.

"...I can't phone him, the prison'll see, they tape the calls...they can't find her, they can't, it's all wrapped up isn't it, I mean ...remember in the car we...so, well, it's all...it was wrapped up. So they can't f***ing find it.

"When you go back, tell him."

Lucas: "What?"

Fraser replies: "When you go back tell him I want it done.

"Listen, before you go home, I just want to know if he's in.

"Arms off and pull teeth out.

"They can't find her, can they?...it's impossible innit?

"Turned the place all over."

Lucas interjects: "Shh, careful ey...might hear something."

Fraser: "...you go round...and you turn off to the left and if you turn round there is a row of garages and it's all very secure, well that's what... Hecky said to me...tell you?"

Lucas: "No he never."

Fraser: "...I'm worried about the..., you know I hid them. All her bank cards...all her...slips, all her notes...and if they see them I'm out.

"...but that's what I want you to do it's there by the... You can get it there."

Lucas: "But then I can't take it."

Fraser again: "No, don't worry, it's all wrapped up, you know they're all in boxes and if you...then that doesn't matter.

"It'd help me really, em I mean, if the police come up I'm f***ed aren't I?

"Oh you know the stuff we took away er...you know Hecky...it a while ago yeah, well it's completely gone now and they won't find it and...cause it's all gone so it's OK.

"...anything else just and help yourself."

Lucas: "And they are in the same place, in the car?"

Fraser: "No, no, he moved them, because of all that.

"Yeah, yeah that's right, he'll know about the ...just give him a ring and get it sorted, you know."

Lucas: "...and when he bought the other car, he left it there...the Ford Fiesta, so no he hasn't."

Fraser: "He's hidden it?"

Lucas: "Yeah that's right, that's all he can do, we can't scrap it yet."

Fraser: "Yeah I know, and he can't use it can he, make sure he doesn't give it away or they'll...to me...the car, so...

"so what, yeah, but when you get hold of him make sure he doesn't talk about it. That's very important."

Lucas: "...but some things...away and in the back seat of the car to make sure there's nothing, er, er, what's it, er, er, when he took the car away it was/wasn't on credit and everything pointed to him."

Fraser: "Did you remember to remove them from..."

Lucas: "I...from there and gave them to. But none of them...want to go to prison, do they?"

Fraser: "And, erm, well, the Tuesday before, no that was the twenty fourth, the Friday, the neighbours were arriving...got it out of the boot, great big box I'd just thrown them in.

"I just gave him the box and he said, `leave it with me', so the police won't know them.

"I mean, I mean I'll get away with it alright, I mean...not a problem is it, what are they saying?"

Lucas: "Well, erm, the police are saying, well erm I think, that...but obviously they can't prove it though."

Fraser: "Well, they can't.

"There is no evidence...it's all down the plug hole so the police don't know sh*t so f**k the lot of them.

"I opened the...I went down there and that was when she said they'd been murdered and that was..."

Lucas: "...if we b...(looks very much like bury) he we'll get put away."

Fraser: "Ask him if, erm, I don't just, just ask him, `what's the problem?'.

Lucas: "...yeah...point of going to see him...to get him to...(missing word looks very like abandon) that. See what I mean?... He'll believe me...

"That you were...with me."

Fraser: "That's right, yeah."

Lucas: "...when we were...before it all happened and...tell them...no...don't worry about that w***er."

Fraser: "...he might tell them, he's...about the car."

Lucas: "...they won't find...can't find it.

"One of the problems...and if we don't move it...no...me.

"I'm going to go round there and see Hecky and I'll make sure that he...about the car and the plastic.

"...he's not going to...out of it...so, there isn't going to be a problem with Hecky.

"If we...that erm, that box, if we take it...and put it with the other stuff then.

"...but if you...the ring, there's no way they'll forget about."

Fraser: "Just tell them I couldn't have done it, and that."

Lucas: "...that way they'll think it couldn't have been you...problem...trust me, yeah...and I'll say that on the Monday you...the Monday...I'll say that you...and then you...and that you were there then and then after that we...up...say you phoned her then and she...fine."

Fraser: "That I talked to her, yeah?"

Lucas: "Nothing forensic...they're will be no way they'll...it...you'll see.

"I'll talk to them and...and they'll believe me.

"...it'll be...and when I tell 'em that...won't be any...there'll be nothing they can do...yeah, and, so erm...and that'll be easy...that's why...the police."

Fraser: "...I just want it sorted."

Lucas: "...I'll tell 'em you weren't near there, you were...there with me...that's it yeah, exactly, that'll get them off (off your back).

"Believe me...first, they got no forensic, second they'll have me, third they...so they'll have to believe me..."

Fraser: "Oh...yeah."

Lucas: "They'll...it off.

"They'll be f***ing finished, no problem, you won't have to...no more..."

Fraser: "Yeah, yeah, I see, yeah."

Lucas: "...but if I tell them...so you win...the only bit that's going to be difficult is Hecky blamed Pedro for...and then...the car and...

"So they won't...but that way they don't need to know about the car it's dead simple then."

Fraser: "Do you...?"

Lucas: "But, see, if we say you were there it's...then...and the police will have to...think...and...so, no problem then see...they'll (police) have to face it.

"They think you were, but we'll say you were over that way see and after Pedro says that you were...does that make sense?"

Fraser: "...only problem is...can't...the car."

"...but Arlene'd told them that as well...so they know about it."

Lucas: "But then...and, erm, Arlene...it doesn't matter, doesn't matter...they won't.

"Yeah, so that's why I'll tell 'em we went...'cos then they'll....on the Tuesday...and we drove that way, not that way...there and...exactly, yeah.

"But I promise you, they'll believe me, I don't know.

"But of course, by then, we'd moved her, I mean, but, em, they don't know that...they don't."

Fraser: "Yeah, yeah. Ssshhh ey."

Lucas: "...but Hecky phoned me, he said he would...the car, and...

"They'll have to believe me 'cos...can't have been you...so there."

Fraser: "...that Arlene had just...and that was it."

Lucas: "...they can't blame you."

Fraser: "Oh yes they can...if they...the bathroom that's it, so...them off it's got nothing to do with 'em.

"...just tell them we went there, I did this and we did...and that's what we did."

Lucas: "I'll tell them that."

Fraser: "Listen, erm, when I...with them I'll say you've been a victim.

"I put it all together just in the one box, it's got to be there, it's got to be there, I mean when I took it, erm..."

Lucas: "Oh yeah...I remember that...Hecky was there, yes...for me now."

Fraser: "...just say to them...he wasn't....

"You still got the keys haven't you?"

Lucas: "Oh yeah, I wouldn't leave (or left) 'em there."