Prosecutors, defenders union teeters because of sheriffs.

Efforts to form a combined union of Los Angeles prosecutors and public defenders may have foundered because a key prosecutor wants to include deputy sheriffs.

Public defenders have too many differences with the Association for Los Angeles Deputy Sheriffs, said M. Leslie Stearns, president of the public defenders association.

Stearns said that the deputy sheriffs' union, known as ALADS, also is too political but that she remains interested in partnering with deputy district attorneys to form a union.

The deputy sheriffs' union lobbies in favor of enhanced prison sentences, the death penalty and other pro-law enforcement causes with which public defenders disagree.

Stearns said she envisions a union focused strictly on "bread and butter issues" facing prosecutors and public defenders.

Deputy District Attorney Steven Ipsen said he reached out informally to the 7,000-member deputy sheriffs' union as a potential partner in his union bid because of its political clout. Ipsen is president of the 700-member Los Angeles County chapter of the Association of Deputy District Attorneys.

Prosecutors and public defenders are falling increasingly behind private-sector counterparts in salaries and benefits, Ipsen insisted.

"We used to be the best-paid prosecutors office in the state, and we've slipped," Ipsen said. "I'm not even sure we're in the top five anymore."

Roy Burns, president of the deputy sheriffs association, said he is "very interested in partnering up with the DA's association."

"We think together we would increase our influence over things that affect us, and the team up is a natural," he said.

But Burns wasn't enthusiastic about joining the public defenders.

"That would be a much more difficult relationship for us," he said. "We are on opposite ends of the spectrum of law enforcement. Maybe it could work out, but I don't see that happening."

Most deputy district attorneys and public defenders in California are organized. The ones in Los Angeles County were part of a joint union until members voted in the late 1980s to dissolve it.

Ipsen said few prosecutors joined the union because it was affiliated with a an SEIU local, an organization they viewed as unresponsive to law enforcement concerns. He said he would encourage the public defenders to seek re-join with SEUI.

"Ultimately, prosecutors and public defenders don't have to be in the same union," he said, "but we can work with each other on some issues. That's the direction I'm leading toward at this moment."

The final decision will rest in a vote among members of both groups, he said.

There have been periodic efforts by both groups over the past decade to form another collective bargaining unit. A poll taken three years ago showed 92 percent of the Los Angeles County chapter of Association of Deputy District Attorneys favored a union.

Ipsen campaigned on the unionization issue last year, when he ran for reelection.

"I think there was a naive belief at the lime that as prosecutors we would be taken care of, but that has not be proven to be true," Ipsen said of the decision to disband the union two decades ago.

Ipsen said the union idea gained speed six months ago when the county Board of Supervisors refused to let his members address the board about prosecutors' pension plan.

"The county won't even enter a dialogue about it," Ipsen said. "All that did was really make it clear that if we don't have the formal right to bargain as a certified bargaining group, we will get nowhere."

Representatives for supervisors Zev Yaroslavsky and Michael D. Antonovich declined to comment on the possibility of a union.

District Attorney Steve Cooley said although he would like to see his prosecutors paid better he does not believe his office has problems recruiting top talent

"We just hired 99 individuals who are absolutely top-notch out of 841 applicants," he said.

But Cooley said the low pay, largely due to the county's lean budget for four years, has hurt retention. Twelve attorneys with two to five years of experience recently left the office, most of them for higher payer jobs in the private sector, he said.

Ipsen has been a polarizing figure before when he got involved in politics before. Two years ago, he led an effort to oust two judges after they freed several inmates rather than stay late to arraign them after a holiday weekend. He drew the ire of members of his own organization after he bought a full-page advertisement in the Daily Journal that appeared to be on behalf of the prosecutor's association. The ad called for candidates to run for election against judges David S. Wesley and Dan T. Oki.

Wesley and Oki successfully fended off election challenges.

He has been mentioned as a potential candidate for district attorney, and said Tuesday that he has not ruled out such a bid.

Ipsen and Stearns said, at the very least, they should be able to enter into a certified bargaining group to represent their members before the county supervisors.

"The idea is to have better representation before the Board of Supervisors in respect to having a say with our benefits, salaries and other quality of life issues," Stearns said. "Students today coming out of law school have a 100,000 in loans they have to pay back. Some of them want to do this kind of work, but they simply can't afford it"

Ipsen said, "The big problem is you can be a first-year lawyer coming out of law school, get hired by a big law firm and make $125,000 a year. But in the DA's office, you top out at that after spending a career here."

First-year prosecutors and public defenders currently start at $54,660 a year. That's about 81,400 more than what San Bernardino County pays and $2,400 less than Riverside. Both offices are unionized and San Bernardino prosecutors and defenders are currently in a dispute with the county to reach pay parity with Riverside.

First year prosecutors in San Francisco, who are also unionized, start at $80,080.

Ipsen disputed a commonly held belief that public lawyers trade a higher salary for shorter workdays. Many prosecutors, Ipsen said, routinely work more than eight hours a day without being paid overtime.

"I'm not expecting to be paid as much as a private attorney, but you still need to be able to afford a house and support a family," he said.

District Attorney Spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons said while prosecutors do often work more than 40 hours a week and don't get overtime, they are allowed to put in for compensatory time off.