OFFICIALS PROBE `SPRINGER' SPARRING.

Byline: Bruce Weber The New York Times

Jerry Springer, the TV talk-show host whose guests have a penchant for punching, kicking and hurling chairs at one another, appeared before the Chicago City Council on Friday to speak on the issue of whether actual assaults and other criminal offenses are committed on his program.

That was the ostensible subject, anyway. What actually took place was an often snide, sometimes heated discussion about the merits of the daytime talk show, which, with an average of more than 6 million viewers daily, is the nation's most popular. Over the course of the three-hour meeting of the council's police and fire committee, city aldermen decried what they called the show's sanctioning of violence as a response to personal insult, and Springer reiterated his often-voiced position that the show, which is filmed in the city, portrays violent acts in an unattractive light and therefore sends the message that violence is, well, bad.

``To my death I will tell you that the fighting you see on our show never, ever, ever glamorizes violence,'' Springer said.

The hearing was attended by several dozen of Springer's hooting supporters, though they were outnumbered by the news media. (Asked by an alderman, Dorothy Tillman, whether footage of the meeting would end up on his show, Springer shrugged and said: ``Maybe. If it's good.'')

The hearing took place just 10 days after Studios USA, the production and distribution company that owns the show, issued a statement saying the program would no longer present fights on the air, though the company has made a similar statement in the past and did not live up to it.

And indeed, though the Springer show since then has been airing benign episodes - like an interview with a man with an 8-foot moustache - it seemed that even after Friday's hearing the issue was far from settled. No one could get Springer to say, unequivocally, that there would be no more violence on his show. The closest he came was in an exchange with the committee chairman, William Beavers.

``Is there going to be any more?'' Beavers asked, meaning any more violence. Springer, referring to Studios USA, replied: ``They say no.'' Beavers: ``They're the boss, right?'' Springer: ``They're the boss.'' Beavers: ``If they say no, that means no, right?'' Springer: ``Sounds like it to me.''

Such was the level of discourse, which was a response to a letter sent to Terry Hillard, the superintendent of the Chicago Police Department, by the Rev. Michael Pfleger, a local clergyman who has long crusaded against the content of Springer's show. The letter, which asked that arrests be made when people on the show are attacked, was reported in a local newspaper column, and the issue was subsequently brought to the council by an alderman, Edward Burke.

Burke tried to get Springer to admit either that the violence on the show was staged, in which case viewers and advertisers were being hoodwinked, or that it was real, in which case people ought to be arrested. But Springer slithered free of the trap.

``It looks real to me,'' Springer said. ``But are they really angry as they appear to be? I can't tell what's in their minds.''

Springer said that he could, in fact, recall people being punched on the show and chairs being thrown, but he was uncertain whether he had actually seen someone being kicked. Burke then showed a videotape from the show in which people were kicking and throwing chairs and evidently trying to hurt one another. Why wouldn't they be arrested? Burke asked.

Springer's response was that all guests were free to file police complaints and that some do. He also wondered why no hockey players ever get arrested at a hockey game.

The petulant atmosphere seeped among the government officials themselves. At one point, Burton Mitarz, an alderman, accused Springer of accepting the invitation to speak to the council only to boost his audience. ``I think you think we're just a bunch of sanctimonious buffoons,'' he said. But when he tried to continue, he was silenced by Tillman, and he angrily yelled at her. ``Why do you interrupt me, Dorothy,'' he said. ``I don't interrupt you when you ask questions.''

At which point Springer leaned into his microphone. ``Throw a chair at her,'' he said.

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