Living conservatively: the sons of Robert Welch provide a glimpse of what life was like in the household of the man who started the John Birch Society.

In the pages that follow, John Birch Society president John F. McManus interviews Hillard W. Welch and Robert H.W. Welch Ill, the two sons of the late Robert Welch who founded the John Birch Society in 1958 and led it for the next 25 years.

Interview of Hillard W. Welch by John F. McManus

Hillard Welch, whose interview appears below, was named for a friend of his father, a man Robert Welch came to know as his classmate at the Naval Academy. Known to his friends as "Hid," he and his wife of 50 years, Joyce, live on a lake on Cape Cod, Massachusetts. Hid is an active member of the John Birch Society.

THE NEW AMERICAN: Do you have any early memories of your father's efforts to preserve our nation?

Hillard W. Welch: Yes, I do. In 1950, Dad entered politics for the first time and was a candidate for lieutenant governor of Massachusetts on the Republican ticket. General Daniel Needham was the candidate for governor. I remember driving Dad to various meetings around the state where he campaigned. As you can imagine, he didn't deliver the typical politician's speech. Even then, he told his audiences about the drift of our nation from its foundations. I know he hoped to do more if he were elected. While he and Dan Needham waged a vigorous campaign, they came in second.

Dad was disturbed by the lack of understanding of America's founding principles displayed by the average voter. As I look back on that time, I don't know for sure, but that could well have been the point when the idea of an educational crusade began forming in Dad's mind. He was, as most of your readers know, a tremendous student of history. He loved it in all its forms. At that time, Dad was still working in the candy business (James O. Welch Company) in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and spending a fair amount of time with the National Association of Manufacturers.

TNA: What came next on the road to starting the John Birch Society?

H.W. Welch: While I am a bit hazy on exact dates, I think it was in 1951 that he wrote a lengthy letter, some 37 single-spaced typewritten pages, to a friend responding to what he considered a lack of understanding about the historical events that preceded the firing of General Douglas MacArthur from his command in Korea. Shortly thereafter, he added more facts and produced what later became the book May God Forgive Us. The book was his interpretation of what had happened with the sellout of China to the communists, the disastrous conduct of the Korean Conflict (Dad and I agreed that it should never be called a war since Congress never declared it as such), and the ultimate dismissal of General MacArthur. To him, these were not just bad mistakes; they were the result of traitors or their influence in our government. One of his primary targets in all of this was Secretary of State Dean Acheson. Dad made no bones about saying that we were following in Rome's footsteps and, if we continued, we would be destroyed in the same way.

TNA: Did he know anything about John Birch then?

H.W. Welch: I don't think so. He actually told me about a year later that he came across a brief mention of John Birch while examining some government files in Washington. In typical fashion, Dad became interested and pursued the subject to the ground, learning everything he could about this amazing young man. From that research came the book The Life of John Birch in 1954 Then in 1956, he began writing and publishing a small magazine called One Man's Opinion. He researched, compiled, wrote. and edited everything in the first issues, including creating the design. At that time, I was in the advertising and marketing business, and it was in 1956 that I met, fell in love with, and married Joyce Tyler, the daughter of Dan Tyler, Jr., former chairman of the Republican State Committee. Joyce and I had a whirlwind courtship, having our first date on March 17, 1956, were married on June 30, 1956, and have now been happily married for just over 50 years.

TNA: What stands out among your earliest memories?

H.W. Welch: Well, strange as it may seem, I learned to speak French before I did English. This was because my mother had taken me and my brother Bob to Paris, France, so she could study Napoleonic History at the Sorbonne. I was three and my brother was five when we returned. Dad encouraged my mother in such pursuits because they were both keenly interested in history of all types. I would have to say that they both continued learning throughout their entire lives, never having what anyone could call a dull moment or lack of an interesting pursuit.

TNA: What about the years when you and your brother were advancing toward adulthood? Dinner table conversations must have been very interesting.

H.W. Welch: I'll say they were. One requirement that sticks in my memory is that Bob and I were required to wear a suit jacket and tie at every evening meal. Meals were a time of discussion and mental exploration when Dad would expound on what was happening in the world or in the United States and challenge us to respond. Learning--even at meal time--was considered normal and regular. I cannot remember what you would call a dull conversation with Dad or Mother. Intellectually, they were fully capable of discussing almost any subject, and they both read prodigiously. Dad loved poetry and could quote it by the hour. He even studied. religions to know their influence on our nation's and mankind's history. While this was all very stimulating to us, Dad never demanded that we read anything in particular though he frowned mightily on what might be considered trash writings. The classics were more to his liking, though he enjoyed good mysteries and introduced me to Ellery Queen, Dashiel Hammett, and others. He would often give us books at Christmas time and I still have and enjoy a book of poetry he gave me.

TNA: Did you become politically aware at any early age?

H.W. Welch: I think I was 15 when I realized that our government was overgrown and intrusive beyond proper bounds. As a consequence, I wrote a letter to the Boston Herald criticizing FDR and praising Wendell Willkie. They placed a cartoon next to the letter and sent me a check for $10.00. Not too long after that I learned a good deal more about Mr. Willkie and would never support him and his "one-world" view today. Incidentally, I never joined either party and remain a life-long independent. Probably because of my background, I haven't trusted either party.

TNA: How about your own formal education?

H.W. Welch: Because of WWII, I had a disjointed college career at Yale University. "I majored in American History, graduating in 1949. I recognize now that not all I was being taught at Yale was correct, and I gradually began to realize that the left had infiltrated the faculty to the point where everything was biased. Over the years, I have corresponded with the president of Yale to point out some unbelievable leftward activity at the university or to comment about an individual whose appointment was not in the best interests of the United States. Articles in the Yale alumni magazine often resulted in my sending off such missiles. I must admit, however, that the president has always been most courteous and has answered each and every one addressed to him.

TNA: Living at home during much of the 1950s must have brought you in contact with many of your dad's friends and associates. Whom can you remember?

H.W. Welch: Probably the most impressive of all was Ohio Senator Robert Taft. Mostly from Dad's awareness, I appreciated the fact that Senator Taft was a man who could be counted on to stand firm for Americanism. I also remember the discussions during 1952 and how the GOP nomination was stolen from him by Eisenhower and his backers. I regret that I never met Joe McCarthy since Dad was a great supporter of him and decried the vicious and unwarranted attacks directed at him. Dad believed in what Senator McCarthy was trying to do since he knew from his own research the disastrous effect the infiltrators had had and were having on our government.

I also remember the early meetings of the JBS in Boston and meeting such stalwarts as Bob Stoddard, William J. Grede, A.G. Heinsohn, Robert Montgomery, Nelson Shepherd, Tom Anderson, Hilaire du Berrier, and many others.

TNA: What occupation did you choose for yourself?

H.W. Welch: After almost a year working in the Welch Company candy business, I went to work as a trainee at an advertising/marketing business in Boston, where I spent the next 25 years. When I realized that I could do no more for that organization, I left and started an importing/distributing firm concentrating on ophthalmic surgical instruments and systems. At the very time that I sold that business, people who knew me as an importer asked me to take over their regulatory affairs with our Food and Drug Administration, so today I am still active as a Medical Device Consultant serving European and Canadian companies in that capacity. From a personal standpoint, my wife Joyce and I have raised three wonderful daughters and feel very proud that we have given them the solid family life we believe is so important for all children. About a year ago, as a result of a conversation with the editor and publisher of our local weekly newspaper, I began writing a series of columns about the U.S. Constitution with the intent of "educating" at least in small part some of the local readers about the ravaging being done to that great document and the foundation it gave our nation.

TNA: Your father was a very determined individual whose perseverance is legendary. We're sure there are many examples of this trait in him to which you could point. Is there any one indication that stands out in your mind?

H.W. Welch: You are absolutely right about Dad being determined. He was also a very successful salesman, a profession both he and I considered of great value to the economy of our country. To answer your question, in 1941, Dad wrote a short book entitled The Road to Salesmanship, which is a very worthwhile look at this profession. As you may know, in the candy business, the product was always sold through distributors who were called "jobbers" back in those days. in one particular instance, Dad had tried repeatedly and unsuccessfully to sell to a particular jobber in Brooklyn. After a year of frustration and without success, he wrote to the man, told him again why he should be purchasing Welch's candies and concluded his letter with the statement, "As far as I am concerned, you may go sit on a tack! Sincerely yours, Robert H.W. Welch, Jr.--P.S. Tack enclosed for your convenience." The jobber actually framed that letter, including the tack, and went on to become a very good customer and friend of Dad.

TNA: What do you think of the John Birch Society today?

H.W. Welch: First, in my opinion, the recent changes in leadership were overdue. I recognized several years ago that the JBS was losing steam and effective leadership and mentioned it on several occasions, making specific suggestions. In my experience, more businesses fail because they lose their focus than for any other reason. In fact, because I have consulted for a number of businesses over the years, I have given many of them copies of a book written by Al Reid, a marketing guru of some note, entitled Focus. I commend it to all who want to get a picture of what can happen when focus is lost.

In my view, the Society had reached a point where something had to happen. It was not a question of "if," only "when." It is always difficult for a CEO to realize that he is no longer capable of moving the organization forward. It takes a strong individual to recognize and accept such, and then act accordingly and responsibly. I think it is a shame that this could not have been done for the JBS in a more discreet and less disruptive manner.

Interview of Robert H. W. Welch III by John F. McManus

Robert H.W. Welch III carries on the name of his father. Even though he is the older of the two Welch sons, he deferred mostly to his brother regarding this interview, indicating that he expected to have very little to add beyond what "Hid" offered. After many years living and working in Pennsylvania, "Bob" and his wife Carol reside in Alexandria, Virginia, where he is an active member of a local JBS chapter.

THE NEW AMERICAN: Do you have any early memories of your father's activity that led to the founding of the John Birch Society?

Robert H.W. Welch III: I graduated from Williams College in Massachusetts in 1945, and from there worked at a number of odd jobs until I went to work for several years as a salesman for the James O. Welch Candy Company. Assigned to New England, I had the best territory because I knew someone in the company [laugh]. I also accompanied my father as his driver during his 1950 campaign for lieutenant governor, but only briefly. It was about this time that I relocated to New York and took a job with an insurance company. I always knew that Dad was writing letters and seeking to influence people. But I knew nothing about May God Forgive Us and The Life of John Birch until each book was published.

TNA: You ended up living in various parts of the nation. How did that come about?

R.H.W. Welch: During my years in Manhattan, I studied chemistry at Columbia University's night school. With that background, I was fortunate enough to land a. job at Merck & Company in New Jersey and worked there for about five years. After I married in 1958, Merck transferred me to St. Louis for five years, then on to San Francisco for five more years. Pennsylvania was the final stop with Merck and I enjoyed many fruitful years there before retiring and relocating to Virginia.

TNA: Were you known as the son of the man who founded the John Birch Society?

R.H.W. Welch: Yes, and there were fellow workers who asked me about him, especially during the years when he was being tarred with all kinds of nasty adjectives. The people who questioned me were never adversarial, however. They were simply curious like a lot of other Americans. I did my best to assure them that my father was a wonderful American, not the monster they were being told he was.

TNA: We know that you collected a lot of news clippings during this period. What became of these?

R.H.W. Welch: In the early 1960s there were many articles in the newspapers and magazines about Dad and the John Birch Society, and most were very negative. Whenever I came across any, I clipped them and put them aside. After a year or more, I contacted Hid since he was in the advertising business to ask if he could assemble the material in some sort of binder. I especially wanted Hid to create a pink cover for it, and he did. By this time, there was the Blue Book and what was frequently called the Black Book (Robert Welch's The Politician about the career of Dwight Eisenhower). I believed that many of the nasty articles about. Dad were written by people who were liberals, even pro-communists. Hence, many could be characterized as pink; not necessarily red. That's how the idea for the Pink Book developed. Well, Hid did as I asked quite well indeed. The final Pink Book was presented to Dad who got quite a laugh out of it.

TNA: What else can you recall about your earliest years?

R.H.W. Welch: Living in France for a year with Mother is a fond memory. But I recall in the later years getting help in learning Latin from Mother. We had a tutor come to our home on Sunday to teach us how to play chess. Dad frequently read poetry to us. And we grew up in an atmosphere of books, one or two of which were always gifts at Christmas. He never told us that we had to read anything, but he certainly made important books handy for us. One favorite of mine certainly is Stevenson's Home Book of Verse. Mother and Dad gave me a copy to take with me when I entered Williams. He wrote a sonnet to me in the front of it, entitled Vieillesse ne Peut. The last two and a half lines of the sonnet, written in September, 1941--long before any thought of the JBS--are a great reflection of the determination with which he lived his life. The lines are:

   our father, wise
   And weak with failure,
      for his strength has won
   This truth to be your guide:
      It can be done.
   Signed Robert H. W. Welch, Jr.

TNA: Your brother mentioned a rather formal routine at the dinner table. Can you add to what he stated?

R.H.W. Welch: Yes, we always had interesting conversation at the dinner table. I recall concluding that my father "didn't suffer fools gladly." This wasn't the way he expressed his attitude; it's probably something I read in Bartlett's Quotations, a copy of which Mother and Dad also gave me, but it certainly fit. We even studied Spanish at the dinner table.

TNA: What is your opinion of the John Birch Society today?

R.H.W. Welch: I've been very encouraged over the past year because I believe the society again is on the right track. I agree with Hid about it having lost focus and we've talked about that. It seemed to me that for several years, the goal was to accomplish stability. Stability certainly is an objective for any organization, but that's not what the JBS is about. The JBS is intended to educate our citizens about the everyday evils engulfing our beautiful nation. I believe it should chase the enemy, in other words, "Don't tell me you're doing a good job because you met the payroll. Show me that you're exposing the enemy that's trying to destroy our nation."

TNA: Is it true that the name Robert Henry Winborne Welch, the name of your father and grandfather, is being passed along?

R.H.W. Welch: Yes; I'm actually R.H.W. Welch III. My son is Robert IV, and his second son is Robert V. We call him Quinn (because of the Latin word for five) to avoid confusion. The Good Lord blessed us with three wonderful children, Valerie, our first born, and Steve and Rob. And may the Good Lord bless the John Birch Society in all its efforts.