How to lead better book talks: my classroom strategies for insightful book discussions.

It is last period and I am leading a book talk with half of my fourth-grade class while the others read quietly. "George hasn't said much so I'll let him have a turn," I say as several hands wave enthusiastically at me. Although it is nearly dismissal time, the 11 children and I are still engrossed in a discussion comparing The Wizard of Oz to Alice in Wonderland.

"I think that Alice, in Wonderland, she wanders around and wonders in her head," George says. "Wandering and wondering."

"Wandering and wondering!" I repeat, enjoying the sound of the words. "And Dorothy doesn't wander and wonder in Oz?"

"She knows where she is going. She has a goal," George replies.

"She has a goal and is very determined," I say as Meredith practically falls off her chair in her efforts to be recognized. "Quick, this really has to be the last thing."

"There is a really big difference in how they get to the land!" exclaims Meredith. "Alice kind of falls into the rabbit hole while Dorothy goes to Oz in a tornado."

"Hey, that's right! One goes up and one goes down!"

"Yeah!" is the group's response.

"That's a good point. Okay, we'll continue this conversation tomorrow."

As you know, talking about books is central to a solid literature-based language arts program. Not only are children reading good books, but they are listening to these books being read, writing about them, and, above all, talking about them as much as possible. Providing plenty of literature talk in a classroom is beneficial for all, but is especially rewarding for those children who express themselves better orally or those who might find reading laborious, but have wonderful ideas to offer in a discussion group.

But if your experience is like mine, you know that getting children to talk about books insightfully isn't always so easy. Many can be complacent or reluctant to speak up beyond responding to basic questions of plot, character, and setting. To help you create successful book conversations, here are some ideas and techniques that I have found effective.

SETTING THE STAGE

I begin the year by establishing an environment in which children can talk honestly and comfortably about books with me and their peers. The best activities and questions will be useless unless your students feel that their comments are valued and that no one will laugh at them or belittle them in the group. It is my job to make every child feel safe and be willing to take risks, and to say something unusual about a book. To help establish such a tone, I make it clear that I am genuinely interested in what each child has to say. I sprinkle my feedback with comments like, "That is something I never thought of!" or "Boy, that is really fascinating. What else can you tell me about that idea?" Don't worry about going overboard with your encouragement--even the more confident children in your classroom need to hear assuring words.

GROUPS THAT WORK

What is the ideal group size? What kind of group is best? Of course, there are no absolute answers to these questions, but here's what works well for me.

* Whole-group dynamics: At the beginning of the year the whole class and I read a book together. This allows me to establish my rules and ways of holding a book discussion, and gives children a chance to get a sense of each other and of me. The advantage of a whole-group discussion is that interesting ideas are heard by the entire class.

* Small-group spark: Throughout the year I lead book talks in half-class groups of 10 to 12 children, usually twice a week. Children tend to prefer this group size because it is more personal and they get more opportunities to talk.

* Mixing and matching: My groups are always heterogeneous in ability. In book discussions children learn to appreciate each other. The slow reader may realize that her ideas are quite sophisticated while the fast reader might be missing key passages in the book.

WHO SHOULD LEAD THE TALK?

I believe that the teacher is the best person to lead book discussions. After all, we are the experienced readers. Children still need good models of how to read for the joy of it, as well as how to dig deep into a book. For many students, reading is still difficult and they need encouragement to believe they can truly read and think deeply about books. The best way to encourage this is by example--and the best way to deliver this modeling is by leading book discussions.

PICK BOOKS YOU LOVE

Most of my literature units are built around books and authors that I love. These are classics of children's literature, and my enthusiasm for the books can usually win over even the most reluctant readers. I also maintain an independent reading program because I don't want students to feel that they should read only what I select for them. Balancing my taste in children's literature with students' choices and tastes is critical to the success of my program.

FOLLOW CHILDREN'S LEADS

Part of the fun of leading discussions is that you never know what will happen or who will say what. Each conversation is full of possibilities and you have to be willing to ditch a wonderful question you've raised if the group is heading off in a different direction. When I was leading a conversation about The Wizard of Oz, I encouraged the children to compare Dorothy to Alice in Alice in Wonderland, which they had just read. However, one group became more interested in figuring out what all the precious metals and jewels meant in The Wizard of Oz. Before I knew it, we were researching William Jennings Bryan and the free silver movement of 1900, and trying to determine the relative importance of silver, gold, and tin at the time Baum penned his book about Oz.

Of course, conversations don't always take flight and go on wonderful tangents: Dialogues can die. Groups can get bored--of a book, of each other, of you. Don't push a flagging conversation. If it isn't working, drop it. Everyone would be better off reading!

SPIN CONVERSATIONAL THREADS

One of the hardest things to do as a discussion leader--and one of the most important--is to draw out the rich thinking behind a seemingly simple comment. I find that children often make comments that could go nowhere if I did not help. Last year, for example, during our discussion of The Wizard of Oz, a child commented to me that she didn't think the Wicked Witch of the West was really wicked. I asked her why and she and others in the group argued that the witch was merely greedy. As it turned out, we spent a fair amount of time discussing all the connotations of the word wicked. How easily I could have missed the comment and lost a chance to develop an interesting conversational thread!

LIGHTING THE CONVERSATIONAL FIRE

Getting a book talk going isn't hard--it just takes the right kinds, of motivating questions.

* Ask open-ended questions. Raising a very general question is often a good way to launch a discussion. I have found the following questions good starters, as long as you ask children to explain their responses in detail: What did you think of this book? How did you like the book? What was your favorite part of the book? Who was your favorite character?

* Honor students' questions. When my students come to a discussion with provocative questions about a book, these questions begin our discussion. For example, when we began discussing The Wizard of Oz, my students had many questions about why the book differed from the movie. They were especially curious about why the slippers were red in the movie and silver in the book. Another question that came up was why the Scarecrow was the smart one:

* Make personal connections. Asking children to relate the book to their own experiences is another effective way to spark a conversation. Perhaps a character in the book reminds a child of a relative; perhaps a setting seems familiar or an experience in the book resembles one of their own. When starting a unit, I always ask children about their personal experiences as they relate to the unit. For example, when we begin our study of Cinderella, I ask each child to share his or her own background knowledge of the tale.

DIFFERENT ANGLES ON THE BOOK

Discussions provide great opportunities to bring out various elements of a book.

* Focus on character. Studying character is one of the best ways to engage children in a book talk. After reading Charlotte's Web, I ask students to respond to two questions about the book in their journals. I then have them read their responses to begin a discussion and record their comments on chart paper. I often note children's remarks on chart paper so we have a record of our conversations that we can easily return to.

To give you an idea of the kinds of questions I find effective--and my students' responses--see the box on the previous page.

* Scrutinize writing. Early in the school year I guide a class study of Charlotte's Web and show the children how White wrote and rewrote the book before publication. I use Peter F. Neumeyer's The Annotated Charlotte's Web (HarperCollins, 1994), which is full of details about the book, White's creation of it, and its publication. I especially like to show my students White's notes about spiders and his many drafts of the first chapter. This inspires students to look much more closely at White's writing, and to seek out especially delightful sentences and descriptive passages. For behind-the-scenes looks at other classics, I recommend you seek out annotated editions and biographies of authors.

* Look at illustrations. My students love to recognize and discuss illustrators and how they work with stories. I do an intensive study of the many illustrators of Alice in Wonderland and students enjoy describing why they like one version of the story over another. Sometimes you'll want to focus your unit on illustrations; at other times, conversations about illustrations will come to the fore spontaneously--it's up to you, the nature of the book or theme, and the interests of your students.

* Make thematic connections. Discovering a book's thematic links is another enjoyable route for a book talk. When I do a unit on Cinderella, we explore as far as possible all the ways the Cinderella theme of rags to riches appears in literature and in popular culture. We find Cinderella-like sports teams and Cinderella-like politicians, as well as numerous Cinderellaesque sitcoms on television. To help my students make connections between books, I select works that have similar themes, settings, or characters. For instance, The Wizard of Oz and Alice in Wonderland both involve little girls traveling to imaginary lands, all of E. B. White's children's books involve animals with disabilities, and all Cinderella stories have a rags-to-riches theme. The best part is, often my students see connections that I have never noticed. Months after our Cinderella unit, one of my students commented that Dorothy's silver slippers in The Wizard of Oz made him think she was a Cinderella-type heroine.

Reading, talking, writing, and responding to good literature are at the heart of my language arts program. I hope that my ideas help you on the road to better book talks!

RELATED ARTICLE: Book Talk In Action

Who is the hero or heroine?

"Charlotte--because she used all her physical and mental strength to save Wilbur."

"Fern and Charlotte--because they are like one person (two sides of a person) saving Wilbur."

"Wilbur--because he saved Charlotte's children."

"Mr. Arable--because as a farmer he decided not to kill a runt."

"Templeton--because he helped with the words and the egg sac."

"E.B. White--because he decided everything!"

Who is selfish and why?

"Templeton--because he never puts anyone before himself."

"Wilbur--because he always expects Charlotte to do stuff for him."

"Fern--because she cared about Wilbur in the beginning, herself at the end."

"Avery--because he wants the same or more of what Fern has."

"Mr. Zuckerman--because when Wilbur got the medal, he feels it is all his doing."

MONICA EDINGER is a fourth-grade teacher at the Dalton School in New York City and the author of Fantasy Literature in the Classroom: Strategies for Reading, Writing, and Responding (Scholastic Professional Books, 1995).