A funny thing happened on the way to the seminar.

With cash flow tight, budgets slashed and staff cut everywhere -- how is it that BBDO's Steve Hayden could take his ad agency and clients out for an evening at The Improv?

Or that Marc Reede, of Promotional Sportstars, would continue to have success booking celebrity motivational speakers such as sports coaches Pat Riley or Tommy Lasorda.

As the recession continues to take its toll, smart managers are actually spending money to get through the rough times.

And they're spending money on talk.

On the motivational end, speakers range from the high-end celebrity who usually speaks in general terms, to the specific training speaker who delivers "how-to" talks on improving certain skills, such as sales or communication.

Comedians, however, deliver pure entertainment.

Companies are not just spending money on these speakers, they're spending big money.

For a normal, one-hour speech, New York Knicks (and former Laker) coach Pat Riley charges $20,000. "That's the high end," Reede said of speakers' fees (with the recent over-the-top exception of General Norman Schwartzkopf at $60,000-$80,000 an hour). Non-celebrity speakers usually charge less than $10,000 and for comedians, the fee typically ranges from between $5,000 and $25,000.

The speakers keep most of that, less a 20-25 percent commission for the speakers bureau. Comedians generally give up less than that -- around 10 percent -- to their agency.

While not everybody commands fees like Stormin' Norman, those on the motivational or humor circuits have experienced continual and even increased business during the recession.

Dr. Kathleen Reardon, associate professor in the management and organization department at USC, said that it is especially during a down economy that companies need to bring in speakers.

"I can't think of a situation where you would not bring in people because of a financial crunch. It's becoming more important to senior managers since they have to do more with less resources," she said.

In addition to strictly motivational speakers, the International Group for Agents and Bureaus (IGAB) provides speakers with an entertainment edge. "We have a dead speakers society," said Dottie Walters, principal of the Glendora-based IGAB, of about 40 speakers who perform in the semblance of historical personalities. Imagine how Mark Twain or Albert Einstein would liven up a meeting.

Walters said the recession has changed the nature of the business. But, she also pointed out that the recession has changed the scheduling of speakers. As companies cut budgets, she said, they opt for smaller regional meetings instead of one large annual meeting. "They cut travel costs," she said, by not flying members all over the country. This has improved business for speakers bureaus since companies need more than one speaker.

Barbara Foster, president of Keynote Speakers Inc., agreed that business is different these days because "the recession has changed the choice of speakers" to those which focus more on entertainment.

Walters also said that requests for members of the dead speakers society has picked up. But, the recession has taken its toll on speakers bureaus, despite seemingly steady business.

Reede, who primarily handles celebrity jocks through his Beverly Hills-based Promotional Sportstars, reports that business during the recession hasn't been scoring big. He pointed out that "companies still want top speakers, but for less money." Businesses are working with reduced budgets and simply cannot afford some of the prices, he said.

He books about 50 dates a month and said that business has remained level for about two years.

Pauline Buck and Natalie Goodman, who own BG Speakers Bureau Inc. in Los Angeles, said that their business picked up after the Persian Gulf War. Said Goodman of the war, "Corporations canceled meetings they had scheduled during that time." They didn't want their people traveling then, she said.

Dr. Robert Kriegel, a San Francisco-based management consultant and business author who speaks in the Los Angeles area, said that his business is up. "I like to teach people to break out of old mindsets and think more creatively," he said. Kriegel has noticed that the people who are winning during the recession are spending more.

Like BBDO Chairman Steve Hayden who, for a few thousand dollars, celebrated the 100th anniversary of the advertising agency by taking his employees and clients to The Improv comedy club. "You've got to have something to laugh about," he said. "One of the things we're finding (in the recession) is that working relationships become more and more important." You have to keep your people happy, he said, and compensation doesn't always mean money.

"Humor gives you a new perspective," he said. "It gives you hope and creativity . . . and helps us identify at the grimmest possible time." In fact, he noted, some of "the best ad campaigns started off as jokes."

BBDO is not the only one turning to the comedy scene for inspiration or just relief from the recession.

Budd Friedman, owner of The Improvisation, said the club's corporate division has been responsible for "about 20 percent of our gross revenue in the last eight months."

Some companies will call and say "we just want a funny guy in this price range," said Friedman. For others, the club will tailor a show.

Rick Greenstein, head of the comedy division at the talent agency William Morris Agency Inc., echoed Friedman. He said some firms want artists to just come do what they do, while others want a comedian to perform a particular character and relate it to the company.

The cost for calling in a comedian varies according to who they are and how many major television or movie credits they have accumulated, Greenstein said. But, usually a company will want a comedian near the end of the week or on the weekend. For comedians, performing one night between a Thursday and a Sunday would preclude a weekend booking at a comedy club. So the cost, he said, "must justify giving up four nights in a club."

The Groundlings Theater, former stomping ground for such talents as John Lovitz and Pee Wee Herman, takes a different tack in its corporate work.

Scott Sevel, who recently joined the group as marketing director specifically to handle corporate assignments, said that the group has not actively pursued this in the past.

"That is one of the changes we're making now," he said, because the group has received much interest in different types of corporate services. These range from training videos to live performances. And like others in the comedy business, shows are tailored to the corporation and all carry different price tags.

In some cases, comedians even complement motivational speakers. If a comedian performs before a main motivational message is delivered, "everyone listens to the speech more," said Jamie Masada, owner of the Laugh Factory. "The comic gets peoples' eyes and ears to the microphone."

He said that he books 15 to 20 dates per month around the country and owes much of his success to the Fox Network show, Comic Strip Live, which is filmed at the Laugh Factory.

So, a company shells out thousands for an hour of comedy or motivation. What kind of return does the company get for its investment?

According to Jon P. Goodman, director of the entrepreneurial studies program at USC, there is no research on the effectiveness of the motivational speakers. That's not due to a lack of interest in the question, but because "motivational" cannot be defined for research purposes.

Words like "motivational" or "morale" can only be measured on the operational level, she said, in terms of time and quantity. If large product quantities are produced in a short time, managers may be able to assume morale is high. But it essentially cannot be measured.

Marc Reede says that he measures the effectiveness of a speaker by the number of call-backs received for a particular person. "I tend not to place speakers unless I feel that they will receive a standing ovation," he said.