'How can you produce so much material and be efficient?'. (Towards a Global Partnership for Development).

Agnes van Ardenne-van der Hoeven had been Minister for Development Cooperation of the Netherlands for only four weeks when she attended the World Summit on Sustainable Development in Johannesburg. Seven Dutch Government departments--development cooperation, finance, trade, agriculture, labour, foreign affairs and environment--had been preparing for two years a joint position for the Summit, she emphasized, saying that "it was my responsibility to carry out the instruction and come back with results".

Horst Rutsch of the Chronicle spoke with Mrs. van Ardenne on 16 September 2002 in New York.

On the millennium development goals 

Water is life; sanitation is dignity. Sanitation was not part of the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). After tough negotiations, the Johannesburg Summit agreed to accept 2015 as the target year to provide access to sanitation for half of the population lacking it today--some 2.4 billion people. And 1.2 billion don't have access to water; we will also halve that amount. On biodiversity, we added something to these goals. We had hoped to achieve more on durable energy. But now, I think, we must stop adding goals; we have to work these out--that is what the plan of implementation is all about. We don't need new talks or new conferences on that scale. Instead, we should now focus on implementation--that's more important.

On the Johannesburg Summit

The outcome of the Johannesburg Summit is significant, above all, because of what is new. For the first time, we have combined poverty reduction with trade and sustainability and environment protection in one holistic approach--that's very important. We also found out that besides the involvement of Governments, you need the private sector and civil society. You need partners in sustainable development: multilateral organizations, the private sector, civil society, as well as Governments. That too is what is new about Johannesburg--the search for new partners in sustainable development: from the private sector, the non-governmental side and the UN system. These kinds of partnerships complement bilateral development cooperation. In partnerships, you try to find more capacity, more managerial expertise, more institution-building--that's important whenever you want to improve water, energy, health, education or biodiversity. You need the capacity and the people to make it sustainable.

On the centrality of water issues

Water was one of our priorities for the Summit, as was energy. We have the Prince of Orange very much involved with water issues. He is our water Ambassador. He travels worldwide to put that issue on the political agenda, and he was successful because in Johannesburg it was the most visible issue: water and agriculture; water and biodiversity; water and health; water and education. We are water experts in the Netherlands. We have lived below sea level for centuries and have learned to survive, and we can teach other countries to survive by managing water. We have water boards in order to be transparent, in order to be democratic. And in Egypt that idea has been taken over already--water boards managing local water resources, managing their own quality of water and the level of water in order to irrigate the country.

On the role of local governance

Act global, think local. This is the case more than ever. Since the decentralization of development has started, not only in the western world but also in Africa, you see that mayors, for instance, have to tackle challenges in water, energy, health and education. But they don't have the capacity or the funds. And what happens then, as a mayor explained in Johannesburg, is that the private water industry sells all the water supply and then there is no contract at all to supply water and assure quality and prices. So the poor suffer even more. That's why partnerships on the local level are much more important than on the governmental side. I think we have to speed up these partnerships, especially in Africa. We must use the momentum before we lose it. We have to speed up fulfilling our obligations, our common approach, and not wait. There are cynical people who say: Let's wait and see what happens with NEPAD (New Partnership for Africa's Development). Is there any leadership at all? Do they want to continue with good governance and democratic processes?" I say, "Let's take to the street and walk together on both sides"--not only Africans but also the Western world, together.

On peace-building and development aid

There are a lot of interrelated issues--peace-building and development aid, economic recovery and development aid, protection of the environment and development aid. In certain areas in Africa, all these types of combinations can be found and need to be addressed for development aid to be effective. How can we be most effective in our approach to reduce poverty and achieve the MDGs, not only in terms of poverty reduction but also in advancing peace-building or respect for human rights? It could be a whole package deal. In the Great Lakes region, we have a bilateral relationship with Rwanda, but it is on hold because the country is at war with the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Whenever there is no sign of an agreement on the peace process, nothing will happen in advancing recovery in Rwanda or in the Congo. So what we try to do now is find new ways with other partners, such as South Africa, who are willing to contribute troops to observe demobilization, disarmament and repatriation of the rebels in the Co ngo so that the Rwandan troops can go home. This new kind of integrated policy is not easy, but it's necessary, in order to be more effective in poverty reduction in both countries.

On the reproduction rights of women

In Johannesburg, we had to fight to get reproductive health rights in the final document although it had already been agreed on during the Children's Summit in May. Certain States--the United States, some Arab States, the Holy See--tried to resist recognizing the right to reproductive health. The United States had earlier refused to contribute to the UN Population Fund. I had spoken with UNFPA Executive Director Thoraya Obaid on the phone when I was in The Hague. Meeting her here in New York, I told her the Netherlands would give more attention to the work of UNFPA and promote women's rights on reproductive health. I proposed organizing a seminar in The Hague on 8 March--International Women's Day--and inviting Arab Ministers to attend. In the Arab countries, the reproductive rights of women and young girls are not only important for women but also for families. My experience is that when you explain the implications of the right for family planning it will be understood. It has everything to do with careful e xplanation. It has also to do with HIV/AIDS, both in Africa and in Asia. But in southern Africa especially, it's a disaster. It is terrible already with no access to commodities, but when you officially prevent and refuse access, I think it is even a violation of human rights. I think we have a lot of explaining to do, and I'm very much willing to do that together with Mrs. Obaid and other partners in that respect.

On official development assistance

The Netherlands is one of the few countries that has surpassed the goal of providing ODA of 0.7 per cent of gross national product. I remember the time when we had 0.9 per cent. I was a member of Parliament then and very much involved in trying to increase it to 1 per cent. But I don't think we can achieve that these days. Now we have an agreement on 0.8 per cent and I think it's much more than a lot of countries do nowadays. I think partners must be credible. It's been agreed worldwide to donate at least 0.7 per cent--it is not a maximum, it's a minimum--and what I am going to do is to appeal everywhere, to urge the need to be credible and support the ODA obligation of 0.7 per cent. Here and there, I see improvement-the Belgians, for instance, are developing a plan of action to achieve that 0.7 per cent. And that's why we have to stand firm with our 0.8 per cent.

On the importance of multilateralism

The importance of multilateralism, the value of working together in a multinational approach, is immense. In the past twenty years, we have achieved a lot, especially in human rights, treaties, disarmament, women rights. On many issues, there has been a common ground, there are common values. It is important to work with these sets of values. In many countries we cannot work through bilateral aid, we need the multilateral organizations. And now the new approach is to develop partnerships. UN agencies have already started to establish partnerships--it's the new way of working together--and they take the lead in some areas. For instance, in Afghanistan it's impossible for a donor to act alone in trying to develop the infrastructure or repatriate refugees. You need an integrated approach. We must try to build a reliable framework. It will be more sustainable with more partners within the United Nations system. We must do it together and be part of this joint effort.

On the importance of continuing UN reform

The United Nations produced 6,000 reports and had 50,000 meetings in the last two years. How can you be efficient when you produce so much material? We know already everything--we know what we want and we know what we have to do. "Please stop talking and let's start walking", that's what our Prime Minister, Jan Peter Balkenende, said in Johannesburg. We must become more effective-that's the point. We fully support the reform plans for the United Nations, especially the idea of collaboration in the field. What strikes me in my travels is that often you see four, five offices in one street in, say, Addis Ababa. They're all UN agencies, but they have their own ambassador, produce their own facts and do everything on their own. They don't work together. In the field, they are not effective because of this. Let's coordinate and cooperate more, so we can be more effective.

Anna Maria Agnes van Ardenne-van Hoeven appointed Minister for Development Cooperation of the Netherlands on 22 July 2002. A member of the House of Representative of the States General from 1994 to 2002, she was also a member of the North Atlantic Assembly and the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly. As we were going to press, the cabinet of Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende resigned. Mrs. van Ardenne and other ministers continue in caretaker capacity until a new government is formed after national elections.