' I'm a doer more than a thinker. In another life I'd be a sgt major.. that is where the real spirit of the armed forces lies ' EXCLUSIVE: DEFENCE SECRETARY BOB AINSWORTH TALKS TO KEVIN MAGUIRE.

Byline: KEVIN MAGUIRE

IF you like your politicians to be masters of spin, oozing slick presentation skills, don't call on Bob Ainsworth.

But if you want someone who can hold his nerve when his job keeps getting tougher, the Defence Secretary could be the man for you.

Anyone who doubts Ainsworth has a difficult role need only look at the words last week of Hazel Hunt, whose son Richard was the 200th Briton to to fall in Afghanistan.

Brimming with rage, she blasted the minister and military chiefs over the loss of her boy.

In an interview with the Mirror, Ainsworth said sadly: "Increasingly I have known relatives of people who've been killed or badly injured.

"You have to expect anger. You're there, part of the Government that agreed to the deployment that their son or daughter or husband went on and died on."

He meets grieving relatives who want to discuss loved ones who died in Afghanistan.

"How can you refuse?" he said. "The overriding thing from them is they want to know we will do our best to learn the lessons of a particular piece of equipment or methodology."

Ainsworth, forced this month to cut short a family holiday in France over the spate of British deaths, insisted the Taliban is suffering heavy losses and are being defeated.

Speaking in his MoD office, he hailed the impact of Barack Obama redirecting the US's military machine from Iraq to Afghanistan.

But he admitted committing fresh British personnel would be difficult - as public support has waned since the rise in British deaths in Operation Panther's Claw.

Also, the Tories are taking potshots over Afghanistan and the Lib Dems are growing cold over the mission launched in 2001 after Osama bin Laden directed the attacks on the Twin Towers from Taliban strongholds.

It does not make for an easy life for Labour'sixth Defence Secretary since 1997, the third in two years after John Hutton suddenly jumped ship after only 10 months.

Ainsworth, 57, was Armed Forces minister, effectively deputy Defence Secretary, but was still surprised to land the job in June.

He said: "I never expected to be Defence Secretary. It's a great privilege."

It also means he is driven around in Jaguars built by the company that employed him as a car worker in his home city of Coventry.

He was a trade union official and councillor there before winning Coventry North East in 1997. Political opponents' attacks on Ainsworth are often laced with snobbery.

He said: "I just get on with it. I come from a pretty tough background and I learned a long time ago not to be bothered."

Tories and their allies in the press sneered that Gordon Brown downgraded the defence post when Ainsworth's position was entered 21st on a list of 23 Cabinet appointments.

"I wish we had a published list in alphabetical order then I would be number one," he joked.

In an era of freshly scrubbed politicians who look like they were cloned in a lab, he is refreshingly plain-speaking, a bit of a bruiser.

Other Cabinet ministers (grand panjandrum Peter Mandelson, Chancellor of the Exchequer Alistair Darling) shaved off moustaches after Labour focus groups were said to have found that voters trusted clean-shaven ministers.

Instead, Ainsworth took a stand against fashion. Stroking the hair above his top lip, he said: "I grew this when I was 17. I think I was trying to look older at the time.

"I got a tooth bust by somebody who decided they didn't like me and I thought the moustache hid a scar on my lip.

"It's true that people were told facial hair was not appreciated by the British public but I just decided to keep the moustache."

A vainer minister would also have capped the tooth - but it remains broken.

Ainsworth declared himself a doer, rather than a grand thinker of great political thoughts.

Asked who his heroes are, he would not answer Nelson or Wellington. He said: "My heroes are the non-commissioned officers.

"If I had another life that's what I'd be - a regimental sergeant major or a similar rank. That's where the spirit of the armed forces is."

He believes that great spirit has not been undermined by recent tragic losses.

Ainsworth said: "It saddens them but I don't think it hits their morale. There's a steel within our armed forces, a determination, real backbone that cannot be dented by this.

"If you go out there you get a different view and attitude to what you get back here.

"I would say there's a real commitment to the operation. It is something that people want to do, care about, believe should be done.

"Part of the reason why we're doing as much as we're doing is because we're able to.

"We have, man for man, the finest troops in the world. They are able to take on the seat of the insurgency. There aren't many who can keep pace with our armed forces at their best.

"They see Afghanistan as a noble cause. They see this dirt-poor people who have been preyed upon repeatedly. There's a lot more spirit for the operation in the armed forces."

Still, the sustained attacks on British patrols, a suicide bombing of Nato's HQ in Kabul and the rocket attack on the presidential palace before this week's elections were a grim reminder that Afghanistan is an unruly state and the Taliban are far from crushed.

Ainsworth conceded that President Karzai's government is stained by corruption.

He said the goal was to win over the people and isolate the Taliban, while teaching the Afghan government to defend itself so British troops could withdraw from the line of fire.

"We are putting about 2,000 through the Afghan National Army every month and the plan is to get from 90,000 to up to 134,000. Then maybe people are talking about and thinking about whether that needs to be higher," he said.

"I think in the next couple of years we'll see progress. We won't be able to stand down but we'll see increasingly Afghans at the front."

He added: "One of the reasons that we are making progress is the huge American uplift.

"I don't like comparing the two but the surge in Iraq is what got Iraq to a better place. Those additional troops make a difference.

"Eventually we want the Afghan National Army to be able to defend their country.

"Eventually we expect them to say, 'Thank you very much, you've been great and we're now able to do this.' " When asked about the rows over equipment and whether it is good enough, Ainsworth said: "There's not a soldier who would deny that there's been a huge improvement.

"The personal equipment and vehicles they've got, the helicopter availability, it's improved. But there are lots of people back home who don't believe that. They think that when we say it we're just putting spin on it.

"A wartime operation is never going to be perfect. And it's never going to be perfect from day one. Military history shows that."

Army chief General Sir Richard Dannatt has repeatedly crossed swords publicly with the Government over resources and equipment.

Ainsworth said: "I have always got on with him well. The man is committed to the Army, totally and utterly committed. I admire that, - hugely, hugely admire that.

"He is frustrated at some of the things attributed to him as anyone else."

The plain-speaking Sgt Major Ainsworth, it seems, can also be the silken diplomat.

CAPTION(S):

HAIR TODAY The minister's 'tache INTERVIEW Maguire and Ainsworth HOME FRONT Ainsworth at his office in the MoD